The High Cost of White-Knuckling ADHD with Katy Weber
Today I’m talking with Katy Weber, a certified ADHD coach and the creator of the top-rated Women & ADHD podcast. After a career in journalism and wellness, Katy was diagnosed with ADHD at 45. Following that diagnosis, she has built a platform helping neurodivergent women move past the shame of late diagnosis and into a place of radical self-acceptance.
In our conversation, we talk about the systemic stressors that often trigger a late-life ADHD "breaking point," particularly for women navigating career, parenting, and hormonal shifts. We get into the mechanics of masking, why we often use anxiety and shame as our primary motivators, and the overlap between neurodivergence and physical health, looking at how chronic stress manifests in our bodies.
If you'd life to follow along on the show notes page you can find that at HackingYourADHD.com/288
YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/y835cnrk
William Curb: Well, I'm so glad to have you with us today. It's a lot of fun to have these kinds of conversations, especially about late diagnosis and stuff, because I know so many of my listeners are late diagnosed because, well, that's kind of the theme of the podcast from the start, but it is such a more common thing nowadays. And so I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about your own experience getting diagnosed at 45.
Katy Weber: Yeah, I am what I like to call a pandemic diagnosis, which was 2020, March, we all know where we were. And I was actually the PTA president for my kids elementary school, which is just funny to think back at it because my narrative of myself was always this like underachiever. And so, you know, it's helpful like on paper, we find ourselves in these roles that don't really feel like they mix well with us. So here I was, somehow I had become the PTA president, and I was completely overwhelmed and completely just like treading water, trying to do all this stuff.
And then the pandemic happened, and everything came to a screeching halt. And so I thought it would be a really, really good idea to like try to start a new business. So here I am at home trying to start a new business. And I've got my kids at home, they're running out of the room every five minutes, I can't get on to zoom, my internet's out, I'm hungry, I'm like, I just fed you, you know, and this just the chaos of that time was just so overwhelming. And I remember complaining to my therapist about how I couldn't concentrate. And I felt like I was just in waiting mode.
I couldn't get anything done, because I didn't know when I was going to be interrupted. And she, not for the first time, said, I think you should look into ADHD. She had recently been diagnosed through her middle school or son. And so she I think had looking back, she had been on her own like hyper focused journey about what ADHD looks like in adult women. But my first reaction, because I didn't know anything about ADHD was like, I was actually kind of insulted, I think I was sort of like, you, like, I'm a pillar of the community.
Like, like, do you really think that terribly of me? I had such a poor idea of what ADHD was, right? And the other thing was, I didn't think I was hyper active.
I was like, you know, I don't know what you're talking about, I can, I can barely get off the couch, I'm complaining to you about paralysis, which to my mind was like laziness and paralysis were the same thing, right? They were synonymous. And they were also the opposite of hyperactivity. That was how little I knew about ADHD. And so I was like, I don't know what you're talking about, like, I can spend hours on the couch scrolling, like I thought of myself as somebody who was lazy, not hyperactive.
And so I went on to Attitude Magazine, I went on to the website, I took the adult ADHD test, and kind of I got like middling results, I think I scored maybe like a 70, a lot of the questions that as you know, like from the DSM are, or really just didn't apply to me, I felt like they were very odd. Like the one I always use is, or do you feel like you're run by a motor? And I remember being like, what does that even mean?
Aren't we all run by a motor? Like what, what, yeah, of course I do, like I didn't see how any of this was relevant to my life. And I was sort of like, maybe I have it, maybe I don't, I don't, I didn't, it didn't really peak my interest. And then I came across Sarah Soulden's ADHD test specifically for women. And that felt like when I took that test, I mean, I always joke it was the first test I ever aced, but like, it was also like I felt like my whole life flashed before my eyes. I felt like, oh my God, this is what we're talking about when we're talking about ADHD. And it just felt like every random struggle I had had over the course of my life from elementary school to having kids and trying to be an entrepreneur and like, just everything seemed to come back to this tidy little acronym.
And it was mind blowing. And so that was in October of 2020 that I actually got the diagnosis. But before I got my diagnosis, I already had like self diagnosis ADHD, because it was like explained everything about me.
And I really, really, I have a journalism background. And I really wanted to talk to other women because it was so transformative and so like, just it felt like my whole life had been turned upside down. And I wanted to see if there were other women who had had this experience who were diagnosed in adulthood. So I was like, I know I'm stuck at home like everybody else, I'm going to start a podcast. And I had gone on to Facebook and I was in like an ADHD entrepreneurs group because I had joined, 8,000 Facebook groups to learn more about ADHD. And I said, I'm starting this podcast, I'd really like to talk to other women who were diagnosed in adulthood, mostly just to, find out was your experience similar to mine?
What was your experience like? What were the things that tipped you off? And I put a post up that said, like, does anybody want to talk to me about their diagnosis for a podcast? And that within 24 hours, I had had 75 people reach out to me.
Oh, wow. And that was that I had this moment of just like, butterflies in my stomach where I was like, okay, I feel like maybe this is I've caught on, like this is going to be really exciting. And so I started the podcast, but I actually started the podcast before I was officially diagnosed because I remember thinking like, what do I do if I'm not diagnosed? And I, you know, often say like, that feels like a very ADHD thing to do.
William Curb: Oh, absolutely. Well, and especially being like, I have everything that says I'm ADHD, but what if they say I'm not, right?
Katy Weber: What if I fooled them into thinking I still think that sometimes did I fool them?
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely have those same thoughts where I'm like, well, whatever it's not a ADHD, what if I'm just an awful person at living? I often go back to them. Okay, let's say that's true. What changes and what you do, not a whole lot. It's like, okay, I need to then I'm like, okay, this is just not a useful thought pattern then. Yeah, nice. But yeah, it's amazing how having that the space to like, look at like, oh, maybe the things are a bit different. And I love that we're talking about how the like traditional views of what ADHD are. Yeah, a lot of times that's so, especially when we look at what pop culture says ADHD is, we're like, oh, that's not me.
I'm not, you know, little boy that's, you know, spinning around the room. I'm like, okay, yeah, that makes sense. But then we look at what the DSM says and it's still like, oh, well, this is couched in a lot of medical language that doesn't make sense to me. And makes it hard for me to be like, I identify with what this condition is. So a lot of people get very cagey about whether or not they have that diagnosis, because it's like, they're like, I don't see myself in what people are saying in the medical community. But when like, in social media and some of these outside groups, I'm like, I absolutely do see myself. And so I don't know where to I want to land there.
Katy Weber: Right. Well, a lot of the diagnosis is based on external behaviors, right, and observation of external behaviors. And as you know, internalized ADHD is all about how well you hide those behaviors and then at what costs. So I think that's why when people really started connecting the dots, especially women about like what this looks like and how, you know, we're not told, you can't sit still, we're not told, you can't, you know, get your act together. What we're often told is, I don't know how you do it all. And, you know, it's amazing that you're able to hold it all together. And then, you know, that's what I was being told as the PTA president was like, I don't know how you do it all. And meanwhile, I'm like, I'm not doing it all. I need help. Like get me off this ride. And, you know, so it's that feeling of like, how well we are hiding and masking.
William Curb: Because masking lets us do a lot of things right through into burnout where we're just like, yeah, I'm just picking up more and more responsibilities, because it feels good at the time to be like, oh, well, if I do more, I can get more done because I have more focus, you know, like I need the right amount of stuff to do. Otherwise, I can't do anything. And then it's easy to go. Well, I'm just going to keep doing stuff until it's too much.
Katy Weber: Yeah, totally. Right. Is this, you know, the same reason why during the pandemic, I'm like, huh, okay, I'm bored. Let's start a new business.
William Curb: Yeah, it was definitely a stage of being like, I'm completely overwhelmed, but not doing enough. Right.
Katy Weber: Yeah. But I also have said, like, I felt like for the first time in my life, the pandemic allowed me to feel regulated. And I felt that really eye-opening was just that feeling of like, oh, and I think a lot of us, right, like, realized that being at home and like, giving us a very small circle, like I realized for the first time in my life, I was an introvert during the pandemic because I am not shy. So I always sort of like thought introverts must be shy, introverts must be antisocial, and I'm neither of those things. But I was like, oh, okay, now I actually feel calm and regulated for the first time.
William Curb: Yeah, I had kind of the opposite experience where I have always viewed myself fairly introverted, but I was like, oh, I'm not getting enough socialization. I'm less introverted than I thought. And it's just the, I need the right social experience, not, you know, the something where I'm going out and masking. Right.
Katy Weber: Which is why podcasting is so great, because it's like, you have these one-on-one conversations usually. And it's like the perfect scintillating conversation without the small talk.
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. Because you can just like dive right into things. It's funny, because I'm just like, I had a previous podcast where I had like a friend on and where I was like talking about these topics. I'm just like, I had no idea about these things about you, even though I've known you for 20 years. And it's just somehow the medium of a podcast made it so much easier to just dive into those topics. So with this new diagnosis, you were mentioning that like it made everything fall into place.
Katy Weber: I feel like everything made sense. Let's say that. Yeah.
William Curb: Yeah, that's a better way to put it. It's like, oh, yes, that's that's why that was. With that diagnosis, then like, what did you have like things that you changed for how you wanted to do things? Like, so you just started the podcast, but what else like, were there any like immediate changes in how you like to work, or not even immediate, just eventual changes of how you were running your life?
Katy Weber: Oh my goodness. Yeah. I mean, I feel like what hasn't changed, right? I feel like one of the biggest realizations for me, you know, my kids during at the pandemic, my kids were in the third grade and the seventh grade. And now six years later, one of them's in high school, and the other one's in college. And I feel like my, the way I parent has completely changed. And, you know, I was kind of the opposite of a lot of mothers where I was diagnosed first, and then I saw the ADHD in both of my kids, I have a boy and a girl, and the boy was very much like me.
I felt like he had a lot of the same, we were like cut from the same cloth in terms of childhood. My daughter, on the other hand, was very organized, very on top of things. Her room was a disaster, but she was like a, you know, high 90s kind of kid, always doing everything, but she also had really, really high anxiety. And it was, you know, if she once called me from school, because she found out she was getting 75 on her French quarter grade, it wasn't even like a final grade, it was like a quarter grade, because of an assignment she missed, and she like couldn't, she couldn't come back from that. She had a panic attack and called me crying from school, and I had to pick her up because she couldn't like get herself together. And I remember thinking like, well, that's not normal.
I was like, that's not okay. But it wasn't until I started interviewing women on the podcast that I realized like the female presentation of ADHD is much more like that, which is like really white-knuckling it, doing really, really well, having it all together, and then ending up with crippling anxiety as an adult. And, you know, so many of us are diagnosed with depression and anxiety. And so it was grateful to the seeing this presentation in women and recognizing, oh, that's also ADHD. So I had my daughter also diagnosed. And I think, you know, a lot of the way I parent has changed just in terms of acceptance is the absolute priority, right?
There's nothing wrong with you. And I just feel like that shifted so much of how I talk to myself. That's how I shifted so much of how I talk to my children, which is like, if you, you know, everybody wants to succeed. And so if you're not succeeding, let's figure out what that barrier is.
But like, there's no, so we do not use the L word in my house lazy, like we absolutely do not. So I think I just started being kinder to myself, like you had said earlier, like I was just like, it's just really, it's this slow transformation of self-acceptance, and also recognizing that like things can improve. And I can do things I can like your podcast, hack my ADHD in a lot of amazing ways. It's, it's what is the best of me and also the why I struggle the most. And so it was like, holding all of that with a sense of self-acceptance really changed my marriage too. I mean, I think like, I used to really just be so down on myself and think I was a terrible person. And I remember one day thinking like, God, it must really suck to have the person who you love the most in this world, who you have chosen as your partner, always think so poorly of themselves.
Like, it must be sad. And, and I remember like in that moment thinking like, what if I just stopped? What if I just refused to think poorly of myself and decided to start thinking like, yeah, I'm a catch, you know?
And like, if even if I don't believe it or see it, like for this person's sake, I want them because they've chosen me to have somebody who actually has chosen themself too. And so it's like all of these little moments that start with, I think that acceptance piece of like, oh yeah, there's nothing wrong with you, your brain thinks differently, you do this differently. But like, and that's I think where the emotional side of ADHD comes in, which is like, how much that self denial and that invalidation that we, it doesn't come out of nowhere. I mean, oftentimes it comes from our parents and our teachers and everybody in our life telling us if, you know, things would be so much better if you were different.
And that's super invalidating. But I think, you know, it starts with that self acceptance. And then everything just shifts from there. I could go on and on and on. But I feel like that's the main piece.
William Curb: I mean, yeah, the self acceptance part is so important. And so many like, if I'm like, how do I solve this problem? Versus how do I solve this problem? Under knowing that I have ADHD is like, oh, these are different answers. And that makes a big difference. And if it actually gets solved.
Katy Weber: And I'm not the problem, I'm trying to solve the problem, right? So I think that it's just like taking the problem outside of yourself and who you fundamentally are is also super helpful.
William Curb: Because there's been too many times where I'm like, oh, this is just how you should do things. And it's like, this isn't working. And it's like, maybe that's because it's not accounting for ADHD. And it's just saying, just do the thing. And it's like, well, that's not how my brain works. Right?
Yeah. I love the like, we're saying about like, choosing to choose yourself there kind of ideas where a lot of what I've been working on with trying to help myself is being like, what do I want to pass on to my kids? Because I know that they're modeling themselves after me unconsciously all the time. And so if I'm being awful to myself, they're going to be awful to themselves. Because that's what they will learn. And that's not what I want them. I hate when my kids go down on themselves. So I was like, okay, I got to make sure I'm also choosing myself to and being like, okay, I'm not a mess up.
I just messed up on this one thing. Exactly. So I guess a good way to go here. So we have talked about a couple things of like how ADHD presents differently in women.
But can you talk a little bit more about that? Because I'm sure a lot of people kind of like, just have the sense that there's like, oh, there's the difference between like the hyperactive presentation and the inattentive presentation. And it's like, oh, yeah, women are just more inattentive, but it's more than that too, isn't it?
Katy Weber: I think it is. I think, you know, one of the, I mean, I feel like I have spent the last six years questioning, like you said earlier, like, is this ADHD or am I an angry feminist living in Trump America and capitalism? You know, I think so much of what exacerbates ADHD symptoms is what women carry predominantly in terms of like the, you know, the executive functioning elements of a family and often fall to the mother and the woman and the wife. And so the expectations, I think, are much higher for organization decision making and just having your act together in a way that oftentimes I think just doesn't with with men who are and fathers traditionally. And so I think you have the genetic aspect, which is like, I think biologically, children who are assigned female at birth are like going to be more in tune relationally at a much younger age. And so you've got this sense of I don't remember what part of your brain it is, but like, you know, there is like the, is it the hippocampus or the hypothalamus or one of those H words in the brain? But basically, like they do genetically, biologically become more centered on like relational approval and relational machinations than a male would be at a young age.
So like you have that. And then I think also girls are just raised to behave in a way that I don't think boys are, especially white boys, you know, and so I think that like, you know, women and people of color often like our, our sense of worth becomes wrapped up in how well we stay in line and how well we kind of fit in boxes. And that really doesn't go well with an ADHD brain. And so, you know, usually it's like we are in school, for instance, I think of a little white boy is not sitting still the teacher will, and then obviously this isn't over generalization, but I think like the teacher will say, he probably has ADHD, let's get him some help.
Whereas, you know, a child who is a person of color or who is not behaving will get sent to the principal's office, right? We see that a lot. It becomes a matter of discipline. And so I think with girls, it's more like, you know, we fall somewhere in that same category of like, it's up to you, you have to figure out how to behave. And so I think that just then ends up showing up in how we ask for help.
And I think, you know, a lot of the time women need to exhaust all avenues inside of themselves before they feel like they have permission to ask for help. And so, you know, how much of that is genetic? much of that is biological, how much of that is social. I mean, I feel like I'll be spending the rest of my life trying to figure that one out.
William Curb: Yeah, because I mean, I think that social aspect is super important in how we, like because we talked about how we even perceive what ADHD is, but then also how we live with undiagnosed ADHD is completely predicated on what is socially acceptable for us to do. And for a lot of women, it's like you're still expected to run the family and do all of the things that are not easy for people with ADHD to do.
Katy Weber: I know I've heard you say this before too. Like, I had never heard of executive functioning until after I was diagnosed with ADHD. No idea what it was, had no idea how central it was to living with ADHD. And so much of that is basically like what makes you a mature, organized person is executive functioning. Yeah.
William Curb: And it is wild too that it's not part of the actual diagnosis. And you're like, what? This is 100% part of the diagnosis. And he's like, nope, that's not how the DSM works.
I'm like, okay. Yeah, I do think there is so much to say about how what is acceptable to do with ADHD predicts a lot of how we are able to manage it. And especially in people who are late diagnosis, like, yeah, I was late diagnosed because I just thought this was how people act.
I thought I was a bad version of another person for years and years of my life. And it was just, oh, this is something going on. And I just had no idea.
Katy Weber: Right. And I feel like a lot of women who end up being diagnosed in adulthood, usually they're well into their 30s, they're starting to enter perimenopause. And so the big question mark becomes, is this hormonal or is this like, have I just gotten to a point in my life where I'm like, I'm not going to take it anymore. I think it's who knows, I don't know, it's probably all of the above.
But like, I feel like women at a very at a specific time in life are usually that's when they're getting diagnosed because the damn breaks, right? The house of cards breaks, falls over. And you're just like, this isn't sustainable. I can't keep doing this.
I don't, I don't, I need to get off the ride, right? And is that estrogen? Is that, is that age? Is that, you know, post capitalism America? Again, I don't know, all of the above.
William Curb: Yeah, I do know that hormones play a big factor into it. I can definitely see that being, but yeah, I think you're right. It's not just one thing. It's a lot of things. And just also just people knowing that it's an option that it's not, because if you don't have this idea that, oh, this could be ADHD, it again, just becomes this internalized. I can't talk about this because people, I don't want people to know how much I'm struggling with everyday things. Because when it's like, oh yeah, I can't do the dishes. It's just like, that doesn't sound like a problem.
Just do the dishes. And it's like, no, it becomes a huge issue with ADHD where it's, they build up and it's gross. And then you feel bad about asking for help because I should just be able to do this.
Katy Weber: And, you know, if it, when it comes to things that are important, like the people in our life who we love, you know, we oftentimes will get derailed by the things that are urgent or demanding. And then we, we interpret that behavior as well, I must not care about the important people or the important things.
And it's not true, right? And so I think it's like this double-edged sword of trying really hard all the time, and also then being perceived as not trying, which just feels so colossally unfair.
William Curb: There's anything that ever makes me really want to cry is when I'm trying so hard and someone's like, why don't you care about this? And it's like, I'm trying so hard.
Like, it's, like, because like, that definitely happens with, you know, like, doctor's appointments or something where they're like, yeah, you should be staying on top of this. And I'm like, I'm trying. Right. I know. Or like the dentist, you know, they're like, why aren't you flossing? I'm like, I really want to floss more, but it is a sensory nightmare. Yeah.
Katy Weber: Yeah. Right. Well, and I remember when I was getting diagnosed at my doctor's office, and she asked me, like, do you lose your wallet? Do you lose your keys? Do you lose your glasses? And I was like, well, no, I don't. And I told her my elaborate system for why I don't lose things. And I was like, I don't lose my glasses because I have a pair of glasses in every room and I have one in every car. And, you know, and she was like, you work really, really hard to not lose things. And I like burst into tears because I had, it had never occurred to me how hard I had been working just to do basic things.
Right. And so I think that's one of those questions that a lot of people who are, who think they might have ADHD, it hits like right in the, in the gut with that feeling of like, why am I so exhausted all the time when it doesn't feel like I'm earning that exhaustion? And it's like, because we haven't allowed ourselves to even acknowledge how hard we're working all the time just to exist.
William Curb: Yeah, there's such a long, long period in my life where it's just purely running off anxiety to counteract executive dysfunction. Like, I'm not, I'm not ever late because I'm 15 minutes early because if I have not, if I'm not 15 minutes early, losing my mind with anxiety. Right.
Katy Weber: Exactly. Or even just the flossing part, right? Like, you know how it's like, I know I should do this. I know I should do this. I know I should do this. And then at some point, the impending appointment clicks in and you're like, the height, the hygienist is going to yell at me if my gums bleed. So now I have to floss madly and try to make up for it because otherwise she's going to yell at me. And so it's like that it's suddenly we suddenly something happens where it's like, Oh, okay, now I'm going to use impending shame and judgment as a motivator for me to do this. You know, I feel like we do that all the time. It's like we use anxiety or judgment or, you know, people placing as a motivator.
William Curb: Yeah. And sometimes it can work for a little bit, but often we go way too deep into it.
Katy Weber: Well, I think it's also like, you know, if you ask the question, why am I so depressed all the time? That's usually someplace to start to.
William Curb: Yeah. It's like, Oh, it's because of all the things. So one of the things I'm interested about here too is now with your podcast. So how many women have you interviewed on your podcast?
Katy Weber: Over 200. I'm at about 220, I think at this point. I have this, I do, I feel like I don't know if you feel this way, but I feel like I'm sitting on this like pile of phenomenological data from all of these women that I've interviewed in terms of the patterns that I see. And a lot of these links in terms of the autonomic nervous system and this neurodivergent spectrum.
And I always feel like Charlie, that meme of Charlie Day with the red strings everywhere. That's how I feel because I've interviewed so many women, I'm like, it's all connected.
William Curb: So what are some of the commonalities that you are seeing here?
Katy Weber: So I think the big one for me, the big question that I've been obsessing over recently is the connection between the physical, hormonal, autonomic connection between stress and neurodivergence and ADHD diagnoses.
So we know, here's what we know. We know that young women, autoimmune disorders are skyrocketing in young women. So we've got like fibromyalgia, a lot of these chronic pain, endometriosis, they're all hormone related, they're all chronic pain related, and often they're invisible, right?
So it's often, it's like, you have to prove that you're feeling pain, you know, have somebody doesn't believe me, there's all of this like gas lighting that's happening at the doctor's office. So we know that this is skyrocketing in young women. And we know that ADHD is also in the diagnosis are also increasing in women. And so I feel like the nervous system is kind of has reached this breaking point in women in a way that reminds me, you know, when you talk about like the damn breaking for women, I look back at the TikTok and 2020 and the pandemic and this, this rise in diagnoses of women talking about lived experience and seeing it everywhere and being like, that's ADHD. Oh my God, that's ADHD.
I didn't know. But also thinking about like, for me, I think about ADHD and the more of a social backlash to the stress of life right now. And, and I feel like sometimes my question is like, is this even ADHD? Or is this a lot of women who are deeply struggling with executive functioning because of all of these systemic stressors that are happening right now? And we're, we're seeing ourselves in ADHD diagnoses, but there's something else happening here.
And again, I'm not a researcher or doctor, but like my own questions now, because sort of like you, like I don't think of myself as an expert, I think of myself as an interviewer and a question asker, even though kind of after so many years, I'm like, okay, I do know a lot about this topic. But like, I feel like what we are seeing is like a neurodivergent archetype, whether that's autistic, whether that's ADHD, whatever we're talking about, there's like this, you know, kind of the hunter, farmer, you know, scenario, I feel like that I relate very much to that, like there's a population of people who have biologically a certain type of nervous system. And what is happening to those people under intense stress is the ADHD, PTSD, complex PTSD, autonomic nervous system disorders, like all of this stuff happens to a certain population of people, right? And we know this from like PTSD, two soldiers will go to war, one of them will come back with PTSD, the other one won't.
What's the fundamental biological difference between those two? I feel like it's neurodivergence, that's where I'm feeling in terms of my conspiracy theory of these studies. But I look at the increase in ADHD diagnoses in women akin to like the Me Too movement, right, where it was like, we're not going to take this anymore.
And it needs a swell of many women to come together and be like, we're going to change how this looks, we're going to change how this is treated. But I also feel like when we're diagnosing individuals with a disorder, it's very easy to do that. It's very easy to say, we figured out what's wrong with you, here's your disorder diagnosis, and we're not looking at the systemic stressors.
And we're not looking at the big picture saying like, it's like a get out of jail free pass sometimes. And when we are not looking at the society that has created this many people with ADHD.
William Curb: Yeah, I mean, I think there is a lot to say that like,
Katy Weber: I know, I could see you like bumbling over, oh my God, I have so many thoughts.
William Curb: Yeah, well, because especially if you like, okay, like my ADHD affects me at, you know, if we like, we're imagining it at a bar graph, you know, like zero to 100, it's like, okay, I start releasing effects from my ADHD above 50% of whatever value is there, you know, and that value is increased by stress and lack of sleep and all of these things. And it's like, yeah, we have so much of that going on right now. So many people are then actually being hit by their ADHD where before it would be, you know, not great. But now it's like it's an actual debt, it's where it's becomes clinically diagnosable because like, oh, now it is affecting everyday life and it is a detriment to like all areas of life. And it's not just this thing where it's like, oh yeah, occasionally I am having problems. But with when you're adding in all of these other factors, it does become that detriment.
Katy Weber: Then again, I don't want to have to spend the rest of my life questioning like, is my ADHD clinically significant right now? And if it isn't, does that mean I don't have it anymore? Right. And so I feel like the idea when we talk about what is clinically significant, what we're doing is then thinking like, it's temporary.
And so that I think misses the point in terms of who we are and how our brains work. I'm the last person to talk about ADHD as being my superpower. But I also feel like I definitely struggle a lot less in terms of mindset and all the stuff we were talking about.
So does that mean I don't have it anymore? I mean, I still get distracted like, you know, it's there's pros and cons to talking about ADHD in terms of what is clinically significant. I don't want to have to be proving the clinical significance of my ADHD for the rest of my life. And I don't want to have to question, you know, I think that's the other thing is like,
William Curb: well, I think it goes back to what you were saying earlier, where you're like, oh, I have all these systems where I really try hard and it masks the ADHD symptoms. And so like, the ADHD is still there regardless of what's going on. It's just whether or not we have something in place that makes it so that we can function.
Katy Weber: Yeah, absolutely. And so that's why I'm more comfortable thinking about the neurodivergent brain, the neurodivergent nervous system. And then it's like ADHD is what happens when your nervous system and your brain are in an unhospitable environment. But I think at the core of it, there are like, there are people who think and act and respond to their environment in certain ways. And I think it's way more than 10% of the population.
William Curb: But again, yeah, it seems I mean, sometimes I'm like, I feel like everyone I talk to has ADHD. And then I'm that's true. That is true because of what you do.
Katy Weber: Right, exactly. I do the exact same thing. I surround myself with people with ADHD. And then I'm like, huh, I forget what people without ADHD are like. And then I hang out with my sister. And I'm like, oh, right. Okay. Thank you.
William Curb: I remember doing some work with a friend and I'm like, oh, what are you doing? He's like, I'm just going to be answering emails for an hour. And he just sat down and did that. And I was just like, but yeah, so it is funny doing that kind of like, oh, yeah, there is a distinct difference. And it's just hard to, if you're not used to it, it gets lost.
Katy Weber: Oh, right. Absolutely. Yeah.
William Curb: There is a lot that we can glean from these things too. Because I think also thinking of ADHD as this developmental disorder, which it is. And then we go, okay, that's going to have add-on effects that are unseen.
And that's why I'm really interested in all these like co-orbid conditions that are unusual because I'm like, that tells a really interesting story of ADHD where you have like, oh, yeah, there's a lot more autoimmune diseases. There's a lot more hypermobility and all these things. And you're like, that's not expected with the model that we're currently being presented with.
Katy Weber: Yeah, I know. I'm very fascinated by that too of like, what is the connection between an ADHD brain and connective tissue too? I feel like there's a lot of people who are also fascinated by that right now. But yeah, so you're just seeing how stress manifests in our body and just seeing like how our whole selves react to our environment, I find is very fascinating. Yeah.
William Curb: And I think it's something that we, you know, one of those things that when we are looking as late diagnosed individuals being like, oh, there might be even more there than I saw because I still don't have a clear picture of everything that's there. Yeah.
Katy Weber: When you talk about like, every, sometimes I feel like everybody has ADHD, I will often like look, you know, I'll look for those markers. Like if I'm talking to somebody and they start talking about how they have Hashimoto's, I'll be like, tell me more. I'm like, okay, it's like all these boxes that we all check off. And it's like, we just see those overlaps so often. It's a really, I mean, that's the other thing I love. It's like, I've been thinking about reading about discussing living and breathing ADHD for the, since my diagnosis, it's the one thing I have never been tired of. I have not gotten bored of it yet. I don't think I've ever stayed with any job as long as I have with this one. So.
William Curb: Yeah, same. It's just, it's amazing. And I'm just like every day, I'm like, oh, there's something new. And it's, or even if it's not new, just a new way of looking at it or being like, oh, because at this point, I've like, you know, I've read dozens of books about ADHD.
And I'm like, oh, this person has a really interesting perspective. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, we're coming up on time here. So I was wondering if there were any final thoughts you wanted to leave the audience with?
Katy Weber: I guess sort of similar to what we were talking about earlier. If you are wondering if you have ADHD, and you think nobody's going to believe you, I feel like that's a good place to start, which is we know our lived experience better than anyone else. And so if, if the stuff you were reading, the stuff you were talking about is the stuff that you're seeing about ADHD is deeply resonating with you, then yes, you are on the right path. And if your doctor says, you can't possibly have ADHD, you had good grades in school, or, you know, you own a business, you can't possibly have ADHD, like find a new doctor. But yeah, trust yourself, right?
William Curb: And if things are harder than they seem to be, maybe there's a reason. Yeah, right? All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate your time.
Katy Weber: Yeah, thanks for having me. It's been great.
This Episode's Top Tips
Recognize that "having it all together" on the outside often comes at a high cost. When people ask, "How do you do it all?" the answer is usually through extreme masking and "white-knuckling," which leads directly to burnout and chronic anxiety rather than true stability.
Many ADHDers wait until the last possible second and use anxiety as a fuel source. While this can work as an effective short-term strategy, keeping yourself in perpetual anxiety to drive productivity is detrimental to long-term mental health.
Broaden your view of ADHD to include the autonomic nervous system and physical health. Katy notes a high correlation between ADHD and "invisible" physical issues like autoimmune disorders, fibromyalgia, and chronic pain, suggesting that a neurodivergent nervous system reacts to stress in ways that affect the entire body, not just cognitive function.