This week we’ve got Skye Waterson of Unconventional Organization back on the show to talk about the book she’s working on, Focused, Balanced Days with ADHD. Skye is an academic and ADHD coach with over seven years of experience in adult education. She has studied various fields, including Psychology, Sociology, and Public Health, and is currently a Doctoral Candidate in Population Health. Skye also hosts "The ADHD Skills Lab" podcast, where she discusses research-backed tips and advice to help individuals navigate life with ADHD.
Today, as I mentioned, we’re going to be getting into her serialized book that she’s releasing chapter by chapter as she works through them on Substack. Our discussion today focuses on what’s already been released, regarding Skye’s ADHD story and executive function but we also get into a whole host of other things from systems and calendars to burnout.
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William Curb: We are gonna talk about this book that you're working on and I'm blanking on the title.
Skye Waterson: The working title is Focus Balance Days with ADHD. I finally decided to write a book. So I was almost like gun shy about that, having written papers before and almost enjoyed the break, honestly, starting a business and not writing. But it's basically the culmination of everything that I have been teaching in a one-on-one space and now in a group space for the past four years and then just building on that into these sort of areas of like how to go from overwhelmed to focused, how to go from stuck to proactive and how to go from inconsistent to consistent and bringing in the research behind that because they think it's so important to do that. But that takes a while, which is why this is going on sub-stack so that people can sort of see the process.
William Curb: You're going chapter by chapter releasing it with your, are you gonna go through the entire book that way?
Skye Waterson: At the moment, that's what I'm thinking. And it's chapter by chapter, it's more like section by section. So it's a bit of a journey that everyone's going on, including me, the writer. So currently doing the executive functioning section and I think the release that's coming out this week is like just looking at hot cold executive functioning and how we have no real definition for that, but what it is and how it's important and the connection to Russell Barkley, talking about that as well. So it's just a lot of information and I wanted to have one place where I could not only write it, but also have some accountability and to share it with everybody as well.
William Curb: And I think that idea about executive function is a great place to start here because one of the things I like always, I'm like, okay, I have this idea of, I know what executive function is. And then I'm like, okay, I'm gonna write this thing on executive function. Let me just pull up the definition again so I can be very crystal clear. And then I sit there and I'm like, oh, that's why I don't have a crystal clear definition in my head. There isn't one.
Skye Waterson: No, and this is something that I also, I was like, okay, I'm gonna deep dive this. And what we do, a lot of it has to do with executive functioning because impulsivity is not necessarily what we're focusing on. It's more like working memory struggles and things like that. But yeah, to find out, not only that we don't have a working definition for it, there's a bunch of different optional definitions. And also the idea that, it's not just the ADHD community that's in this big debate about what executive functioning is. It's the mental health community in general. It's also the sort of head trauma community. Like all of these different communities are having this debate.
William Curb: Yeah, and I think that's an important thing to be really cognitive going in this conversation. It's like, oh yeah, we don't own this definition. And that's why it's not agreed upon.
Skye Waterson: If we just look at one piece of executive functioning, which is the working memory piece, there's a very seminal book published by an author on working memory and he said at the end of it that he would never write another book like this again because it was so stressful and took so long. And he said like, it was really hard to even imagine writing it because the stuff he did before that got so much controversy, so much pushback. And he's the guy who really like spent a lot of time thinking about this topic.
William Curb: Yeah, and it's funny to think about like, oh yeah, you're talking about research and then getting pushback on it. And you're like, oh no, why?
Skye Waterson: And that's just working memory. That's just an aspect of the idea of consciousness, executive functioning and how our brain works. But because it's the brain, I mean, when I was studying neuroscience, they talked about this idea that like, neuroscience is kind of one of those final frontier spaces, which we ADHD people love to go into where everything is new and we are learning so much, which is one of the reasons why it's so hard to measure and really have a definition of these things.
William Curb: Now, just for the listener's sake, often what I do when I do it, I go with the Russell Barclay model where, if I'm recalling correctly, it's just pretty much substituting the word executive function for impulse control.
Skye Waterson: Yes, which to be fair, it makes sense because if you look at the DSM, impulse control is like a big factor when it comes to these kinds of things, yeah.
William Curb: Because that's also one of the things where you're like, oh, there's no executive function in the definition of ADHD, which seems wild.
Skye Waterson: It's so wild, it's so wild for that person who always leaves their house and forgets something and forgets that they forgot something, it's wild.
William Curb: Yeah, and I was like, oh, is talking about executive function and ADHD technically misinformation sincethey're not, I mean, we know that they're connected, but within the definition, it doesn't exist. I'm like, that's a hard question.
Skye Waterson: yeah. But the good news is that one of the things, and the reason I'm writing this book, is that even though we don't have a working definition, like one that everyone agrees on of executive functioning, ADHD is still very much something that you can build strategies for around different executive functioning aspects and test them and try them. And so the only thing that the piece that I want people to remember when we talk about this definition is not, there's no definition there, for it doesn't exist or I shouldn't, but more almost like a bit of a trusting themselves if something is going on in your brain and it doesn't feel like it's working the way other people are working, but maybe it's working better for you to do it slightly differently and you're happy and healthy and everyone else's and all that kind of stuff, then go for it. You know, like there's probably just something in your brain that we haven't figured out yet because everyone's still figuring it out.
William Curb: Yeah, because one of the things that I come up against with like the ideas of self diagnosis and stuff, and I'm like, oh, there's good parts and bad parts, but what's most important is, are you doing things that work for yourself? Like don't try and pushyourself into bad places.
Skye Waterson: Yes. That's the biggest problem. A lot of what we talk about is this idea that having the right ADHD strategies feels like wearing the right prescription for your glasses. You can see properly and if you don't have the right prescription, everything's a bit fuzzy and people are saying, oh, well, that's just what it always looks like and you're sort of looking at this blob, that's a beautiful tree that they just described and being like, are you sure? Because you just described this in glowing detail and I'm looking at a green blob, so I'm wondering if maybe we're not quite lining up here. And so it's about figuring out what works for you. It's been tricky writing this book, holding the nuance and the support because I sort of want to do both. I want to provide the practical support that works for you now without feeling like I have to or I want to hide the complexity of the research that goes behind it as well.
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. Because that's always like the problem with like TikTok where it's like this one minute video and it's like, yes, that's true, but also you need to understand all these other things to really apply that idea.
Skye Waterson: Exactly. It's about bringing it all together into a space where I'm mostly speaking to people who are adults who've had ADHD for maybe they were late diagnosed and they've had it for a couple of years and so kind of trying to take them along. And that's what the podcast, we're trying to bring people along for the ride so that they can become empowered with their own understanding of how their ADHD works.
William Curb: The great thing with books too is you can have that section that tucks in, then you have the little like blocked off section on the side that's like, here's the nuance to this idea.
Skye Waterson: Exactly. We call them like little research recaps. We have workbooks where we talk about that stuff as well. And yeah, it's definitely super fun.
William Curb: I love the meme of people with ADHD always write with parentheses or EM dashes and it's because every thought comes with bonus thoughts.
Skye Waterson: Yeah, 100%. Everything should have footnotes. I'm pretty sure footnotes were invented by someone with ADHD.
William Curb: So an interesting thing with the chapter stuff you sent me was the coming into your ADHD diagnosis and how it wasn't something that you kind of saw. For a lot of people, I think that is they just like, don't realize that how they're thinking is so vastly different than other people. They just go, oh, I'm broken somehow, but it's okay, I'll just work harder.
Skye Waterson: Pretty much. I mean, that's what I did. I was chronic like burnout between every kind of like bit of university and then go back and do it again. Before I was diagnosed, that was kind of my cycle. It was really hard to string a CB together and make it look coherent. I was like taking things out, you know, like putting it all together as a result. And I'm happy to say now that's not the case. Once I got my diagnosis, I figured out these strategies. I haven't burned out ever, which is huge because I've had babies and all kinds of things. But it is this thing of going. I remember distinctly just thinking I hadn't found the right career yet because I was attaching it to something else. Like, okay, well, maybe it's like, I haven't figured out what my purpose in life is and I haven't found the right career. And I see a lot of people with ADHD doing that. They'll come in and say, I'm doing this, but I'm also doing that. And like, maybe I'll get back to you basically, once I have started this new job, because it's going to be amazing. And then I won't need it. And then like, so, it comes back. But I've been there. I've done the same thing. Yeah.
William Curb: I mean, and I think that's an interesting problem that we have with ADHD is I've been listening to a lot of stuff about rejecting the passion hypothesis of finding the work that works best for you. And I'm like, I think this is a huge problem with people with ADHD, especially with undiagnosed ADHD because we're like, oh, we have to find this thing that we're passionate about. But we get bored so easily, we think that we've never found our passion.
Skye Waterson: 100%. And actually, one of the first things I tell people to do is use, I think we've talked about the step into focus routine before, but for those of you who are listening, you can always just message me on Instagram and I'm more than happy to just send you the workbook. But it's this idea of like, okay, the first thing we want to do is like, we want to figure out, can I do this job well? And once they've gotten to the place where the job they're doing now is at a level where they're like, well, I don't enjoy it, but I've got the dopamine starter and I'm stepping into focus and I'm taking the breaks and I'm doing all these kinds of things. I've gotten it to like, as far as I think it's gonna go, then you can make an intentional move into another role if you want to or a different space. And that I think is the biggest problem. And this is something I did so much before I was diagnosed, was like, I would do this big leap. I remember like, I was studying media design and then I was like, oh no, I really want to do sociology. And you know, because I was undiagnosed at the time, I was like, who needs to finish the last few weeks of your design diploma? No one. Like let's just jump. Let's just go to the next one. And so those kinds of decisions, those very ADHD decisions, that is what made it harder to, not even to like, show that on a CV or anything like that, but just for myself, it affected confidence at that time.
William Curb: Yeah, this is something I like, love with Brendan Mann's Wall of Awful model is that you have all these like, bricks in this wall of being like failure, failure, failure. And then you're like, this is my identity now. I'm not someone that finishes something.
Skye Waterson: That's really, really tough. And that's one of the, when I work with people, we use the step into focus routine to kind of like, I guess you'd say build steps into the wall of awful. And a lot of times it's just about focusing on the very next step. And sometimes when you're struggling with things, it's about just being like, can you get to your desk and do something fun for a little while at your desk? And then maybe we'll like, turn off some of the distractions, but switch to a podcast. We're not turning off all of the fun stuff. And then can we like write on a piece of like a post-it note, like what you need to do during this period exactly. And so you're kind of like taking those little steps one at a time because yeah, otherwise the wall is just too big. And the research backs it up again. You know, this is what I'm trying to do with the book is like bring the research in. There's a research to show that. And again, this is the theory, but it's based on kind of the research that we've got, that there seems to be some kind of spike of reward center pleasure that you get if you're neurotypical when you start a task because of the connection to that reward at the end. With ADHD, we don't get that. And so we just are like, what is this and why are you making me do it?
William Curb: Yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, so easy to be like, I don't see the point of doing this. And so I'm not going to do it.
Skye Waterson: And eventually you're like, well, clearly these other people have something I don't because they're doing those tasks. What they must have is that they have a passion for this work that I don't have. So I have to go find the thing that is the passion. And we can really chase our own tails with that.
William Curb: Because it seems like just talking to this term with my children the other day, trying to explain to them what it means that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Yes.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. And I think it's important to say that it's not a judgment at all. Like I said, I was like, give me the crown. I was the winner of this. I did it so often before I was diagnosed and figured out these strategies. But it is a thing. If you're contemplating a job change, you should probably just listen to me to this podcast at best.
William Curb: Well, and it's also great to think about how you're building your skill set when you're going through these things. Because it often is like, oh, I failed at doing this. But what did I learn from that failure? Even just not even really a failure, just that phase. Like what did I learn doing that? And how can I apply that going forward? Or some combination of things. Because I'm like, I would never be doing this podcast had I not had a podcast beforehand that went terribly.
Skye Waterson: Yes. Yes. I remember you telling me that story. It's good. I think I like to, when we're talking with the community or even with my internal team, we try and talk about wins or lessons. That idea of what's a win that we've had recently. Or what have we learned from the thing we tried and it didn't work? Because both are equally useful. If you don't have a lesson, it's hard to be able to adjust and figure out what strategy aspects are actually going to work for you.
William Curb: And I should also emphasize that, yes, things suck in the moment. Try and stay away from the toxic positivity movement. But it's like, yeah. In the moment, it's going to suck. But a couple of months later, you can go, oh, yeah, I did learn how to do that kind of stuff.
Skye Waterson: And that's, maybe I can use that. Totally. I was recently talking to Russ from ADHD Big Brother. And he was talking about that idea of neutral language. He's like, instead of being like, it's amazing. I'm doing amazing. Or like, oh, it's terrible. I'm doing the worst. It is OK. And I am doing it.
William Curb: Yeah, I'll get a text from my friend. He's like, how's it going? I'm like, it's going.
Skye Waterson: And that's OK. Especially with ADHD, we talk about this idea of sensory stacking as part of focus balance days. In fact, that inconsistent to consistent phase, a lot of that has to do with dopamine. Because once you're not overwhelmed anymore, and you're not stuck anymore, then you're like, OK, but now I'm not doing it consistently. And so a lot of that has to do with the dopamine. A lot of it has to do with, can you add dopamine to such an extent that you're able to kind of just turn the dial up a little bit on how interesting your day is. So it's going. But I'm also like, I'm sitting in a comfy chair, having a cup of tea while it's going. So that's pretty nice.
William Curb: So one of the things I've noticed recently is when making dinner, I used to always listen to podcasts and stuff. And I just, for some reason, turned on some music sometime. And I'm like, oh, this makes this 10 times better. Yeah. For one, I don't care if I get interrupted by my kids while I'm listening to music, whereas like I'm listening to a podcast, I'm like, I need to stop. And I'm like, OK, what was going on?
Skye Waterson: Yeah, you have to stop, stop. When two people are talking at once and you immediately get overstimulated. Yeah.
William Curb: And I'm like, oh, this is much better. I'm more energized by this. And I'm like, and this feels silly too, because this is like a recommendation. I've made people before. And I'm like, oh. It's always the way. Yeah. I think the idea of just upping that baseline dopamine for things is such a great thing to do, especially like getting back into something. Often I find when I know what I'm supposed to be doing, and I've done it before and I come back to it. And I'm like, it's not the same and I hate it.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. 100%. It's like this thing of, you know, we talk about it in terms of like a dopamine dial, because I actually have another article. You can just message me on Instagram, dopamine, and I'll send you that link. But it's basically, I was learning about this idea of the dopamine detox. There's a lot of articles coming up on my feed about this idea of dopamine being bad and we're overstimulated and we need to detox. And people were doing it and people were neurotypical and claiming and changing their lives and all that kind of stuff. And it really was a complicated one for me because I understood what they were saying. Like I'd turned off, I'd recently gotten rid of like Instagram reels and I found it was really helpful. But the idea of removing dopamine when you're already struggling with it as a person with ADHD didn't feel accessible. So I ended up doing a bit of a deep dive into the research on it and talking about this idea instead of a dopamine dial, which is this idea that you can kind of go up and down levels. So if the podcast is too much, you know, it's like kids talking and now it's overstimulating, it's like going down to the music and then maybe down to white noise and then off rather than having to just be like, like an on-off switch for dopamine.
William Curb: The dopamine detox stuff is kind of interesting. I did an episode on it a while back and I was like, oh, this is not as well supported by researchers I thought it would be.
Skye Waterson: It was a tricky one. You know, like I said, I'm not saying, and again, this is all very complicated, but the reason it kind of came up was I have a lot of clients who some of them would come to me and they'd be like, I read this article, so I know what I need to do, but I failed at it and I just, I knew I just needed to turn everything off and just focus and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, where is this coming from? Like where in the focus balance days is this like information? And it was like, there was like a lot of judgment on people who weren't doing this idea. You know, like there was this idea of like, I think you're a better human if you can ABC thing, which always happens, I think on the internet.
William Curb: Yeah, I think the funniest thing too is like, I don't disagree with all the things they're saying to stop doing. I'm like, generally, like that's great. They're more extreme ends that are like, don't get any dopamine throughout the day. I'm like, that's terrible. That's not gonna help anyone. But the like, oh yeah, cut back on social media, try and like, you know, basically do the major sins less. I'm like, yeah, that's probably good advice.
Skye Waterson: Exactly, but then the thing becomes, what are we doing instead? And that's where it becomes interesting because what I really realized in doing that kind of research was that, like we're actually kind of under stimulated sometimes. Like we think of ourselves as being overstimulated, but really if you're sitting in a room on an uncomfy chair with no cups of tea, it smells bad or it doesn't smell like anything or whatever, you know, you're not, you're looking at nothing because your windows are shut, but you're on your phone. That's only one of the five senses that you're stimulating. So really thinking about it from a less of a perspective of kind of like all or nothing in that way, but sort of thinking, okay, what other senses can we bring in to make your whole experience better?
William Curb: I've been thinking about that understimulation aspect too recently in terms of like, I cannot take naps. And I think it's because I lie down and I try and not stimulate myself. And then my brain goes, time to go bonkers.
Skye Waterson: Yeah, you've given me free reign. Do you know what you've done?
William Curb: I'm thinking about everything. I'm like, okay, I got to hop out of bed now. And I'm like, I'm still tired. That didn't work at all. And so I'm like, okay, if I like listen to like, you know, sleep podcast or something and have a weighted blanket, you know, or you know, just a number of things to be like, okay, this is going to like get me to that level where I'm stimulated enough that I can actually relax, which seems counterintuitive.
Skye Waterson: No, that makes a lot of sense actually. You just triggered something. So I can only take naps like in the lounge in the afternoon. This is very specific, but like, I think, yeah, you're right. It's because it's like, there's still like some sunlight and some background noise and things happening. And I put a podcast on where as if I go to the bedroom and it's dark and quiet, it's not enough during the day. Can't get there.
William Curb: And I'm like, oh, applying this too to like when I'm trying to take a break, do a little bit more than I think is having heard about neurotypical stuff is and be like, okay, what does my ADHD brain need?
Skye Waterson: Yes, exactly. And I think that's it. That's exactly what it is. It's like, what does my ADHD brain need? And kind of letting that be the focus because the neuroscientists and the researchers are gonna argue and they're gonna critique and they're gonna figure things out. Trust me, we literally talk about it every week on the podcast. That's what we do. But your job is to take care of yourself and your family and your friends and you know, that kind of thing. So it's like, what is good for my brain and really letting that be the focus? Obviously with, you know, talk to doctors and things like that. But like that's the touchstone of what you wanna do.
William Curb: And I think this is also really relevant to another point you were making in the book that ADHD research is very recent. It's only gotten to the DSM was 68. Yeah.
Skye Waterson: And the combination of ADHD and autism is only in 2013, which is even crazier.
William Curb: One of the things that blew my mind is that the first person with diagnosed with autism died last year. Really? Oh my gosh. And I was just like, oh that puts in perspective how recent that diagnosis is.
Skye Waterson: Yes, exactly. And I mean, yeah, it is crazy looking back at it. And also just in general, like I did a lot of, I did a deep dive into the DSM for this book. Like how does the diagnosis look like? What does it include? And yeah, it's two pages, you know? It's just two pages to cover everything. And most of those pages are questions that they ask you about, like, do you stand up more than the normal person would or things like that? So it's very brief, I would say. Obviously there's more context behind it, but this is the thing that's like the be all and end all, if you will.
William Curb: Yeah. Although it is interesting to think, realize that like the DSM is a tool designed for insurance.
Skye Waterson: Yes. Well, I think that's very, very true. It's a tool designed for insurance. This conversation gets me thinking because we do a lot of talking about like what it would be like if neuroscience, like if the brain was scanned for a diagnosis. I know you talked about that. Like what's a really, you know, if we talk about ADHD research, like what's a gold standard of research? Well, it's like, are we doing actual experiments? Are they randomly tested? Are they double blind? And like what's a not amazing type of research surveys? So then it becomes its own conversation, right? And I think that's the thing. I think it's the complexity of this topic that is both so frustrating and so endlessly fascinating. It's the reason that I've been just completely focused on this for four years and feel like I'm only still scratching the surface.
William Curb: Yeah, because there's so much that we don't know. And I mean, while a proper like ADHD diagnosis is like repeatable and verifiable, like that's great. It would be nice to have a very quantifiable brain scan method.
Skye Waterson: That would be great. Yeah, or AI voice, apparently that's the thing now. I was learning, yeah, like we recently reading a piece of research that said that the AI deep learning models are starting to be able to pick up how ADHD people speak.
William Curb: That is definitely something where AI can be much better at picking up patterns that we just kind of ignore normally.
Skye Waterson: Yeah, the footnotes to go back to our earlier conversation. The AI notices them, a deep learning model can notice them. And so there is some conversation about whether that could be a tool for diagnosis in the future, at least for a referral. So yeah, there's lots of new things happening, but I guess at the end of the day, for the person who's listening to this and is like, that's cool, but like I have work tomorrow and I'm trying to like stay in my job and get a good, get a raise and like get my boss to be happy with me because I can't have what happened last time happen this time, that kind of situation. There are practical strategies for that and we do have those practical strategies. We just have to tailor them to everyone's specific environment and their specific struggles because we don't have this easy one size fits all solution for ADHD.
William Curb: And there's also just the aspect of like, we have all these strategies that we've learned to use too and some of them are not great strategies. We have a lot of these maladaptive things. Like I'm like, oh, I'm never late. It's because of anxiety. The best way to make sure I'm not late.
Skye Waterson: Actually, that's so true. When we work on this idea of going from stuck to proactive, so once somebody's no longer overwhelmed, the second thing that we do after the sip into focus routine is help them with their calendar. And this is a complicated one because like 70 to 80% of what we do is take things out of there. Like, okay, you don't need that extra notebook. You don't need that app. I know that app was exciting, but maybe just try this. And so it's really about streamlining and helping people simplify because the amount of complexity that we'll add to our organizational system is so fair because every time we say we have a problem, someone says, well, have you tried a planner? And so we just keep adding them.
William Curb: Funny, when I first envisioned this podcast, it was not discussing all these strategies and stuff. I was like, I want to focus on these tools that people can use. And I was like, as I was doing that, well, I'm like, this doesn't work without this strategy behind it. And then I'm like, I'm doing it. I'm like, and also the tool is kind of a problem itself because we all want a shiny tool.
Skye Waterson: That's the thing. Yeah, we don't do that either. We don't teach. Like people always ask me like, which app, which one? And I'm like, nope, I'm going to teach you principles that will work regardless of what kind of person you are. Are you an online or a paper person? Yeah.
William Curb: In the end, it usually doesn't really matter. And it's going to be totally individual what works best for each person.
Skye Waterson: I've seen million dollar deals get organized and set up on a Google Doc. That, you know, just a Google Doc, plain and simple. Most people have access to them.
William Curb: I mean, I know for years, the best to do calendaring method I had was just like a stack of seven index cards that I had for each day of the week. And I just kept it in my pocket and then would add stuff as I go.
Skye Waterson: I don't remember why I moved away from it. Probably. Oh, I remember having a child. That was so. Added complexity. Yeah.
William Curb: And to get, yeah, you're using things that you don't get back to them. And I'm like, oh.
Skye Waterson: Yeah. Well, that's kind of why when we're talking about those systems, I'm just giving you like little things everywhere. But, you know, we talk about this idea of like, okay, does your organizational system have a capture space to support you and your working memory? So, you know, where you're like, I need to do that, like a space where you can write that down, walking down a road with people coming at you on one hand, like something like that. And then does it have a space for prioritizing? And then does it have a space for like scheduling? And it's usually at that point that people realize it's three different things probably connected to each other. And then what I realized was actually, I wasn't the first person who figured this out at all, because Google and Apple and even Outlook have already figured this out because they have like things like, do you want to use my notes app? And then my reminders, and then you can click and drag the reminders into the Google calendar, the iCal, for example. So, that kind of thing is what we tend to do. It's the system is simple, but getting it to make sense and getting people to use it consistently, that's where the complexity often comes in.
William Curb: Yeah, it's that consistency piece, but also the resiliency of like, okay, I didn't use it today, but I can use it tomorrow. And...
Skye Waterson: Exactly. You want everything to have that bounce back. You don't want to have, you don't want to live in a world where the systems that you use punish you if you don't use them every day because that's kind of happened.
William Curb: Yeah, I mean, I think that's one of the most important things to like, for members, like, yeah, I'm not going to be 100% consistent. How can I 80% consistent?
Skye Waterson: When I was not diagnosed with ADHD back in the day, I was absolutely the person who would spend all weekend making the perfect calendar system for the next week, fully scheduled, color-coded, most beautiful thing. And it was useless by the end of Monday.
William Curb: I have had so many times where I'm like, I'm going to come up with a system that's going to fix the ADHD. And I'm like, at least now at a point where when I have that thought, I go, nope, that's not going to happen.
Skye Waterson: Exactly, yeah, 100%. It was either, honestly, my things was either I would completely abandon the system, or I would stick to the system at the sort of sacrifice of my health and my ability to hang out with family and friends and that kind of thing.
William Curb: Yeah, it's so easy to be like, I'm doing the system, so it must be working. And it's like, no, it's really not.
Skye Waterson: And also, I can almost guarantee, because I've looked at hundreds of calendars right now, that you do not have enough dopamine in your day, whoever you are listening to this.
William Curb: Oh, yeah, it's one of the things that I've been really trying to figure out too, is like, how do I make sure that I'm scheduling time for myself that is not work? Because I'll fill out my calendar and be like, man, that sucks. That's all I'm doing.
Skye Waterson: Yeah, so often, yeah, you look at your calendar and you're like, man, who made this thing?
William Curb: Clearly someone that does not like me.
Skye Waterson: Yeah, and that's the problem. And that's why when we get to that inconsistent to consistent piece of focus balance days, the program and the book, one of the things that people think is like, I have to become consistent. This is where it's going to get so boring, but it's actually where it gets fun. Because that's the thing that makes us consistent is adding dopamine in the right places in the right ways.
William Curb: Yeah, because often when we're procrastinating, it is because we are not taking the time to do things that are going to make us feel better. And so our body's just like making us.
Skye Waterson: Exactly, exactly. That's it. And I talked a lot about this actually recently, but it's this idea that if you imagine your brain with ADHD, a bit like a teenager, if you give them two strict rules, they will climb out a window. You're not going to just get your ADHD into line. You'll find yourself at 3 AM, scrolling something inane that you didn't really care about when it was the middle of the day, but now is super important to you. And that revenge bedtime procrastination is the thing that's going to make it harder to sleep, make it harder to get through the week. We don't really have a, well, we'll just have to white-knuckle it, version of this.
William Curb: Even when we do try, it just doesn't work. You know, I'm like, oh, I'm just going to be like, I'm just going to work through this cycle. And I'm like, I got five minutes of work and it done in an hour. And it's the worst quality stuff. If I had just taken a real break and really just like let go of the expectation I was going to do work, then I could have come back and just do half an hour break, half an hour work. Wow, that worked way better.
Skye Waterson: Yes, yes, exactly. And that's kind of the thing we want to, we want to sequence for you, especially when it comes to the consistency is like, how do we sequence your week in a way that feels fun? Because I will say, because this book is the culmination of everything that I have been teaching. So we have a program where we teach these principles to people. And it gets fun. Like it's mostly fun. And I think that's the thing people don't understand is they're like, right, I've done it. I've done the thing. I'm in a terrible space. You know, take me away and make me learn systems. This is going to be a horrible experience. But it's not, it's not a horrible experience. The horrible experience is not having them.
William Curb: Yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking about like when I started scheduling these board game nights with some of the dads in my neighborhood, I get less sleep on those nights, but I'm more productive on the next day anyways. Because I am doing the things I want to do when I'm having enjoying it. And then I'm like, shouldn't be ignoring sleep every night. But you know, once a week, that's fine. And I'm like, this is great. Exactly. Is there any thoughts that you wanted to leave the audience with?
Skye Waterson: I think that's the number one thing though is the last thing I said, which is that it can sound unrealistic because you've been living your life, not in a way where you can have fun. But like we called the book focused balanced days because it's supposed to be helping you build strategies to feel focused and balanced, you know, having fun, doing a bit of this, doing a bit of that, getting things done, but not having it be super stressful. You know, that kind of day where you sort of wake up, you feel in control, you know, you get to work pretty much on time, you do most of your things, you have some fun, and then you go home and you get enough sleep. Like that is what I want every day to be for you. And that is the goal that I have. And that's that's always been my goal. But now I get to write it into a book, which is really exciting.
William Curb: My brain's like tangent back to dopamine detox because that totally fits in there, that people are all those things that people shouldn't be doing.
Skye Waterson: This is the problem of writing a book that brings everything together.
William Curb: I was like, oh, yeah, this is like totally why people like the reason I didn't like the dopamine detox is I'm like, it doesn't address the issues, which is that you don't have these focused balanced days where if you are doing the things that make you happy and do things, you're going to be less likely to do these other things that you need to be talking for.
Skye Waterson: Exactly. Exactly.
William Curb: Now that I had my little aside there that if people want to find more about you and the book and all that, where should they go?
Skye Waterson: You can go to unconventionalorganization.com. You can also find me on Instagram and I will send you links. If you just message me book, I will send you a link to the latest chapter of the book. That's Instagram on Instagram unconventional organization with an S. We'll get you there.
William Curb: Perfect. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I had a great time talking.
Skye Waterson: Yeah, it's always fun. Thanks for having me.
This Episode's Top Tips
Avoid overcomplicating your organizational tools, and try to rely more on basic principles, such as having a capture space, a prioritization system, and a scheduling system.
Aim for 80% consistency with your systems and give yourself grace to bounce back after setbacks. No one will ever follow any system perfectly, so work on choosing tools and systems that can adapt to missed days without derailing your progress entirely.
Don’t forget to prioritize at least a little fun in your planning. Building dopamine into your day through enjoyable activities can help you stay consistent and avoid burnout.