Building Stronger Teams in Relationships with Dr. Tracy Dagleish
Today I’m talking with Dr. Tracy Dalgleish (Dall Gleesh), a clinical psychologist, couples therapist, and the author of You, Your Husband & His Mother.
She has spent almost two decades helping couples get unstuck from repeating the same old arguments and start building relationships that actually work in real life. And she also runs her own podcast, Dear Dr. Tracy.
In our conversation, we get into how our relationships don’t exist in a vacuum, how family expectations shape our decisions, and why it’s so important to be on the same team with your partner, especially when you’re juggling extended family, ADHD, and a few generational differences in “how things are done.” We also get into setting values-based boundaries, navigating conflict without turning it into a blame game, and using small moments to rebuild connection when everything feels off balance.
YouTube: https://tinyurl.com/y835cnrk
William Curb: All right, well, it's so great to have you here with us. And I'm really interested in this topic because I actually have never seen this explored before this idea of dealing with this relationship outside of your own. But I feel like it's going to be something that a lot of people deal with. So, but before we get into any of that, can you tell me a little bit about yourself and how you got into doing this?
Tracy Dalgleish: Yeah, absolutely. And William, let me just pause to say thank you so much for inviting me into your community and for getting to have this conversation with you. So, I have been working with couples for nearly 20 years through either doing research or sitting in front of people, whether someone comes for couples therapy or individual therapy. And I can confidently say that all people show up into my therapy room wanting to be on the same page, wanting to feel connected and wanting to be able to communicate with their partners.
Like, that is our big goal. And one of those top things that comes up in this conversation is the desire to have really good relationships with extended family members. And it through the years and truly across culture, religion, across 10 years, across countries, I've worked with people all over the world who have come to me saying, I don't know how to navigate this struggle. I don't know how to feel like we're on the same team and deal with this in-law or this extended family member. And we can talk more about why the book specifically is called You, Your Husband, and His Mother. But it's such this common struggle. And so writing this resource, William, was really about giving people this tool at home so they can do exactly what I do with people in my therapy room.
And I can tell you those five steps, they're so powerful. And I've seen couples come out of it, feel like they're more on the same page. They're having those family visits where they're not having to cringe and bear it. And they're not getting into so many arguments with their partner. It's just been really cool to see how the system works for people.
William Curb: Yeah, I feel like oftentimes we think about our relationship as, you know, just this one-on-one thing, but we don't live in a vacuum. There's all the other people that are in your life, friends, family, and beyond that as well.
Tracy Dalgleish: The question I often ask is, do you marry your partner, or do you marry their family? And it's an interesting conundrum because most people show up saying, and I'll actually say all people show up to do this work with me saying, I didn't get married to have this conflict with his family or with her family because we desire to have connection with people.
We want to be known and seen. We don't want to get stuck in those really hard disagreements. And William, especially around holidays, holidays, I know Thanksgiving's coming up and Christmas and we'll be celebrating the new year and around holidays, all of this extended family stuff resurfaces. And then couples are kind of doing this tension piece or having to have these hard conversations with extended family members or sometimes both.
William Curb: Yeah. In our household, we have agreed that we are never hosting Thanksgiving again because of the tension that a rough, like not the day itself, but the preparation getting the like the tension like is just really rough on everyone in our family. So we're just, yeah, we're just not going to do that anymore.
Tracy Dalgleish: I do see more people making that decision. And there's an element in here where we're saying our family relationships don't have to be. So for people listening, I'm putting one hand on top of one finger.
Oftentimes what we do is we balance a relationship. It's hinged on one thing. And what happens with that one thing? It's Thanksgiving for some people. It's Christmas for others. And they're like, you have to come on this day and we have to all be together. And when you balance something like this, that relationship is wobbly.
It's precarious. And instead, families today are saying our definition of family doesn't hinge on this one family event. We can have relationships all throughout the year. We don't want to go through this stress of having to drive eight hours, having to pack up the three month old, driving eight hours in the snowstorm and being there for Christmas dinner because quote unquote, that's just what you do. People are choosing differently today.
William Curb: Yeah, it is really funny when you look back on things that like the hapties and shoulds. And you're like, oh, we can do this differently. I mean, this is something my wife and I have always done with our wedding anniversary, which is in early December.
And often not a good time for us to go out to do places and so I'm like, oh, just do this in the spring or something. And it's fine. We don't have to do it the way that it's supposed to be done. We can do what makes most sense for us.
Tracy Dalgleish: Oh, I love that. That's that flexibility. It's the first step in my vault method. So I wrote this book with five steps. And that first step is really about you and your partner prioritizing what is most important to you. So then you get to decide from there. And that's often this challenge that we get stuck in in our relationships, William, is that people do this, I want it this way, but it's not connected to what really matters to you. So I remember working with one couple where he says, we always go to momma dads for espressos and biscotti on Sunday evening.
And she now has, they have a three month old and another child and she's saying, well, I need to get home for bedtime. I need to prepare for the work week. Like that's just not possible for me.
It's too stressful. And oftentimes people have been ruled. I'm going to use quotation marks ruled by what's morally right rather than tapping into our values and what really matters to us.
William Curb: Yeah, it's often funny too, when we do the moral aspect of things, it's not truly moral. It's just we're placing so much idea of what our worth is based on if we're following through on these things that we think are important.
Tracy Dalgleish: But you should, that you'll be enough. You'll be labeled as enough that you're important that you matter if you do X, Y, Z. And instead saying, well, hang on, what if I start from this place of worthiness and then I get to decide, am I going to spend every night cleaning the dishes to make sure my kitchen is spotless? Well, maybe that's not so important to me, but it has nothing to do with whether we're a good housekeeper or good partner or managing our household the right way.
William Curb: Managing things the right way. That's a big topic in itself.
Tracy Dalgleish: I know. I know. And it's also where couples bump up against each other. Because of course, you bring in two histories and you're two different family systems. And that's why this book, You, Your Husband and His Mother, that's why this book is so important because we don't know how to have those conversations to get on the same page and to say, okay, wait, hang on.
There's this obligation over on my side of the family and on the other side of the family that doesn't look that way. How do we do this together? How do we actually have these conversations? And is it about us talking about Thanksgiving and the Christmas holidays? Or are we even having a conversation around why do we want the kitchen clean every night?
Why do I feel this anger surging through my body when you leave your mug beside the sink? Those are the conversations we want to dig into. And we often struggle to do that.
William Curb: Yeah, I mean, can I especially see through the lens of especially with the this topic with the his mother and stuff where especially with like the household chores where, you know, I've talked with my wife, like, I help clean the house for all these things. And I don't get credit like her mother will or when her mom comes by, she's like, Oh, this is you've done such a great job cleaning the house. I'm like, I spent three hours cleaning. But I also know if the house was messy, I wouldn't get blamed either. Right.
Tracy Dalgleish: It's tricky. The piece here. So just for listeners to understand the reason why the book is called your husband and his mother is because across all relationships, we do see tensions with family members. And that's normal. Let's really contextualize this doesn't make you a bad family. It means you're human. And this is what happens when you're all different people. And there's a special dynamic that happens between a wife and his mother.
So a wife and her mother in law. And it's tricky because for some people, there's role changes. For other people, there's this sense of insecurity that shows up of, you know, as the mother to my son, do I even matter in your family anymore? What role am I going to play if you're doing it differently than me?
It doesn't mean that I did it wrong. And it's also then about expectations that can show up between two people and them not being communicated. And you touched on something so important right there, because oftentimes, women are the Kim keepers in families. And they're the ones who are believed to be doing all the mental load things. Well, and often are.
And so often are, yes. And then you have a different generation coming into the home and expecting so mother in law expects daughter in law to host all the things to say yes to the things to be the communicator. When oftentimes a daughter in law is saying, whoa, I'm just trying to manage my family and all the other mental load tasks I'm trying to do. I can't also still manage your family.
William Curb: Yeah, it's so easy to forget that these things are not explicitly stated, often. They're said with, you know, behind other things like, oh, someone, you know, didn't have time for the baseboards or something. And it's like, that's what you're saying.
Tracy Dalgleish: Oh, I love that you've brought this up because it's the death by 1000 paper cuts analogy where when you take it in isolation that one comment, it's just a comment. Yeah, baseboards, you know, oh gosh, don't look at the baseboards. And then on the other hand, when it's the repeated comments, if it's the baseboards, if it's about why does your baby not have socks on? Or if it's about why haven't you done all these things, then it starts to feel like, whoa, you're coming at me and oh, this is not feeling so good. And what's with all these comments? And it really then asks on us of what we're going to do with it. And William, oftentimes what I see is that one partner will turn to their partner and say, wow, did you hear what your mother just said to me? That was really hard.
That hurt. And oftentimes, it is the woman saying it to her husband. And her husband with good intentions will say, that's just mom.
It's not that big of a deal. That's just mom. She just shows up that way. And so, of course, what a partner then feels is dismissed, minimized, like her experience doesn't exist. And that's really where couples start to feel this tension together, because they're missing seeing what the key issue is here.
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. I think because as the like male in the relationship, you often don't, you're like, oh yeah, that's just how that person is. And I'm not feeling that from them. Like, this is what I grew up with.
This is how it just is. And I don't feel that emotion. So I'm trying to be, to assuade you that it's not bad, but that's not how it's often interpreted. Because when your experiences are dismissed, it feels very awful.
Tracy Dalgleish: And there's a good reason why people do that dismissing and defensiveness. I mean, that can be around anything when we think about if it's the kids, if it's the dishes, if it's the in-laws, if it's sex, that you get defensive or you dismiss things because deep down inside, you're trying to protect something. It's a defense mechanism. And then sometimes what we hear, it touches this shame button, like, uh-oh, I'm not adequate.
Ooh, if my mom is bad, quotation's bad, or you think my mom is bad, then what does that mean about me? And so it attaches so much deeper inside of us. That's why we get dismissive and defensive. We just want to just make it go away. We don't want to have to deal with that.
William Curb: And another way I was thinking about when I was initially contacted by you, and I was thinking about this in the relationship with ADHD, for men and boys that were diagnosed quite young with ADHD, they have had a lot of support throughout their lives for their ADHD. And their mother kind of expects that to continue.
Oh yeah, tell me more, keep going. Well, I was just thinking back to, I wasn't diagnosed until my 20s, but for my own mother, she spent a lot of times just like taking care of things that did very suddenly shift when I moved out and was like, oh yeah, now I'm doing this. But occasionally she'd just step in and do stuff and I'd be like, oh, and my wife would be like, oh, your mom's taking care of that? That's weird. Oh yeah, that's weird that she can be so involved sometimes.
Tracy Dalgleish: Yeah, so you're talking about this really special relationship between mother and son. And then I also think that, you know, as parents in general to any of our children, boys or girls, we want to look after them and nurture them. Mothers are the ones who are there when you score your first soccer goal, when you come home after being hurt on your bike, when you go off to college, they're there, right? And they have this special bond with you. And of course, parents want to care and nurture and give. And then sometimes part of that is also not helping you have your own resources and resilience to have the systems in place to help you do the things. And then what's tricky is that then you get into this union with your partner and they're like, why are you doing that? But like, what's going on?
Why aren't you doing it yourself? And that is a little bit of a dilemma in that sense. And then when you mentioned the children who are diagnosed young, yes, absolutely, because moms are the ones who have been putting those systems in place. And so they want to continue to see that happen. Instead of what I think is really important when we look at this triangle, instead of her saying, you're now an adult, I trust that you can go and do this. And I'm going to turn you towards your partner, a really in a healthy family system, we turn adult children towards their partner rather than dividing them and saying things like, and William, I'll just say some of the couples that I've worked with. So I've had stories where mothers-in-law come over to their daughters-in-law house and they'll say something like, oh, my son's lost some weight, are you feeding him? What are you cooking him? Or they'll start to say, has he been taking his vitamins? Have you been looking after him? And it's this then passing this baton to someone to say, you then have to look after me.
William Curb: And that's, I mean, having that, that kind of relationship where someone is taking care of the other one can be something that often falls into an erodevergent relationship where if one person doesn't have ADHD or, you know, both partners are ADHD, you'll still often see one partner being like, well, I'm taking care of all these things. And that's tough.
Tracy Dalgleish: Yes. Yeah. And so I also then think of some of the common things that show up for couples. I'll hear from women, particularly of, I told him to go and contact his mom and make plans for the holidays and he didn't. Or he was so focused on the work project, but then didn't come and check with me about the family project that we're trying to do and the family plans around Thanksgiving. And so it's tricky because then if you don't understand who your partner is, if you don't understand how you both operate in the best way and holding in mind that saying to your partner while they're looking at the computer screen, don't forget to call your mom to talk about Thanksgiving, they might not register that. And then that task isn't in their system, right? Their system of how they're going to do things and how they're going to execute it.
It's not in that. So then a week later, she comes back and says, why don't you call your mom? And if she doesn't understand that these are part of the ADHD presentation, then often what I hear from my clients, they'll say, he doesn't care about me.
He doesn't think about me. And it becomes this really personal experience rather than saying, okay, wait, hang on. I hear it's hitting a wound for you.
And I bet that wound has been with you for a really long time. And we're going to come back to that. But first, let's just put that back to your partner and hold in mind, who is he?
What do we know about him? How did we communicate this? How did you two come together and look at your plan for the week and set up those systems to do that so it could actually take place?
And then we're going to come back and look at, so when your partner doesn't do something you immediately go to, I don't matter. What's this about? And what are those feelings? And can we work through that?
William Curb: So often, the thing that's caused the ripple is not the first thing, like it's the death by a thousand cuts. It's the little thing at the end where you're just like, really, this is how things are going to be.
Tracy Dalgleish: Oh, yes. And then also too. So I always say to couples, it's not you versus me. That's where people come into therapy. They say to me, Dr. Tracy, change him. He's the problem. He doesn't initiate date nights. He's not calling his mom. We haven't had sex on whatever it is. He's the problem.
Change him. And I say to everybody, okay, hang on. We're going to put the problems in front of you here.
I have a coffee table in my office. It's you and me against the problem. And this framework shift is so important because then we're on the same team. We're no longer playing tennis singles. We're playing tennis doubles. Who's got the ball?
Who's moving where? How do we do this together, understanding what our strengths and weaknesses are and what's coming up this week, next week, next month, so that it's not a battle of who's right or wrong. It's more of a, how do we do this as a team?
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. And I do the same thing with my kids as well, where we're like, hey, we want this to happen. How can we work together especially? And I think this is doubly important with ADHD struggles because often the person with ADHD is struggling and they do want to do better. They just need better systems and working with someone else can really help that.
Tracy Dalgleish: And sometimes if someone, one partner doesn't have a diagnosis, I think of a lot of women who come in after having children and were their high functioning individuals. They have learned early strategies in life.
They were doing all the things top of their game. And then one kid comes along, two kid comes along. And it's literally like that backpack that they've always been managing is now this kind of massive wheelbarrow on their back and it's too heavy. And so those systems they used to rely on just aren't working anymore. And oftentimes, you know, there is, I think of the mothers and women, especially in middle life where we're talking about, maybe we need to explore this a bit further because now we're seeing it interfere with work, like your functioning is interfering with work. And you're coming in and telling me for years now, even after the kids are starting to grow, and you're not in those newborn postpartum days, you're still overwhelmed and something else might be happening here. And how can we then put supports in place for you? These strategies will be the same. But when we have that diagnosis, it can sometimes be really helpful for us.
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. And this is also just resonating with some of the other conversations I've had recently with how hormone-shipped is your ADHD symptoms as you get older and then burnout and adding all these things. You're like, even so like you have this initial thing that kind of set things off. But getting back to your baseline is so hard because things are different now, even though it doesn't feel different, they are.
Tracy Dalgleish: Yes, I'm so glad you brought this into the conversation because this really is a couple's piece here. This couple piece here where how do we work together when I know what I'm like and what's happening for me and how my brain works?
And then I think of my partner and what's happening for them and how their brain works. And with hormonal changes, monthly changes, we're not on the same 24-hour cycle as men and instead 28-day plus or minus. And so we're not going to be the same as we were last week and this week. And if you're in the stage where you're not going to be sleeping the days before your period arrives, then you're going to struggle. Symptoms are going to be worse. It's going to be harder to concentrate. And then as you start shifting into perimenopause and menopause, again, we're tackling new seasons that really require couples to keep checking in with each other and having these conversations.
And William, I really do see women coming to this point. And that's why this book is so needed right now and why this conversation is so important because women get to this burnout point and they say, I have been managing this as best I could. I am exhausted. I am burnt out. I love your family and I can't keep hosting Thanksgiving dinner because it takes me two weeks to recover or two weeks to plan and two weeks to recover. And I've lost a month of the year and I don't want to do that anymore.
William Curb: Always the thing that I'm amazed with, even when I'm having everything go wrong in my personal life, there's also a bunch of other stuff going on too that I'm like, that's still happening. And I'm looking at the news and being like, that's happening. And there's school events and everything.
Tracy Dalgleish: Oh my goodness, school events. And then also too, even just the small moments, you and I had both said we're on the same team in this conversation. So I set it to my older kid the other day. We're all in the kitchen. We're kind of having the snack time. I love the stories at snack time. So I'm hanging out in the kitchen with them and there are some big feelings.
I said, hey bud, we're on the same team. And then my little one's like, mom, you've never told me that tears. And then I'm having to do the managing both emotions. And then like, we're like, okay, well, and it's 8 p.m. And in my mind, I want to be off the clock at 8 p.m. And then my partner's not stepping in to do bedtime and I'm starting to get angry. And it's like, ah, how do we put them on?
And it just really is. And I share these stories, William, and this is something that I love doing, working with people, doing podcasts and presentations and talks is that people often think couples therapists or psychologists that we've just got it all together. And I know you've had some great conversations here on the podcast who are other professionals that show up as human. And it is so powerful when I can sit with someone and say, I get it, this stage in life, this season, it's so hard and you've got so much that you're managing. And how can we then make sure that you have this sense of resilience at home? And I know sometimes, especially as parents, we're like, okay, you know what? Two-year-old meltdowns, how do I deal with toddler bedtimes? How do I deal with toddler meltdowns? I want to do that.
I need to get the solution right away. And my argument, or you know, when I'm on my soapbox to couples, I say, yes, and we want you to have those skills and tools and strategies. But if you and your partner can't even look at each other and be in the same room, if you're feeling so disconnected like your two ships passing in the night, everything is going to feel harder.
You are more resilient in your physical wellness, in your mental wellness, in your ability to problem solve together when you are more connected and you feel like you're on the same team. Yeah.
William Curb: It's one of the funny things I've done when like maybe my wife goes off for a trip and like it's all me doing stuff. And I do great, you know, I'm like, I can like do everything, but it's one of those things where I realize I'm doing really well because I know I don't have any backup and I have to really focus in. And I am borrowing from my future self to make sure that I am on it this entire time and that we're getting everything. And so it's exhausting.
And I don't have time to take off for myself. And so it's one of those things where, hey, even though I can manage on my own really well, I'm so thankful that I have a partner that can also step in when I need it.
Tracy Dalgleish: Oh, there's something so connected about that experience. I know so many people will share this. And I remember talking about it with my community in the sense of why am I a better parent when I'm alone? Because you know it's just you and you have no expectations of the other person.
And it's your boundaries and not someone else's. And I think of bedtime as a common struggle for couples where one partner is like three stories only. You only do three, it's from this pile of the short books, don't you do this and then you get out of there. We wrap it up at 8 p.m. we got a bow, one glass of water, one bathroom use, back to bed. And then the other partner steps in and they're on story five. And then they're on story 10 and then it's an hour later. And the other partner is like, what are you doing?
Well, this isn't what we agreed on for bedtime. And it instantly becomes a you versus me. Instead, when we're by ourselves, we build those resources.
But I love that you've just said that because you really do borrow from your future self when you have to do those things. And I think that's this piece too around conflict. When you are in conflict constantly with your partner, you're taking away the opportunity to find and feel pleasure, play, laughter, joy. And when I say pleasure, yes, it might be in the bedroom, but it might also just be you putting on that 90s playlist and dancing together and laughing and just feeling that sense of connection. But we lose that when we get into conflict.
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. Because when you're fighting with your spouse, you're like, I don't wanna play a card game right now. No, in fact, I don't. I wanna go over there and just look at my phone.
Tracy Dalgleish: Oh, that brings me to this next piece in some ways of just kind of like building on our conversation here where couples will say, I don't know how to get back on the same page. Like we've had this row and now I don't know what to do. It feels like the fire has just combusted in front of us. There was a little, I lit the spark and then he poured the gasoline on and then, whoosh, now we're like on opposite ends of the room, not even looking at each other.
And when it comes to these moments for couples, there are three things that you can do that are so powerful and they also don't, it doesn't mean that you've solved the issue, but it means you can feel close in that moment to not lose your night together. You can say, can I have a Mulligan? So that's golf. Golf is like you do that one shot, you get one, I think you get one Mulligan, my husband's the golfer, I'm like nine holes max. And so, you know, it's like, can I have the Mulligan?
And that's a redo. So then if you were short, you go to your partner and you say, listen, I'm so sorry, I was short earlier and I wanna say it again. I came out harshly. What I really meant to say is, I'm so glad that we're in this together. Or, you know, I'm feeling overwhelmed and I just need a little bit of extra support tonight.
That's the Mulligan. The second piece is going down the road of gratitude or appreciation. Even when you're like, you're putting your stake in the ground and you're like, they have to come to me first. They were the ones who got defensive. They have to, you know, no, be the bigger person. Go to your partner, put your ego to the side and say, you know, I know we've got this hard moment here, but I'm so grateful that it's you and I in this together. Who doesn't wanna hear that?
We all want to hear that in some way. And then the other one that I think is really helpful for people is touch. Put your hand on their shoulder and squeeze them. Or if you walk behind them and squeeze their shoulders, grab their hand and squeeze them. That's a very connective way. It's a very soothing way to come together, to down-regulate the dysregulation that you're feeling from that conflict. Those are just those three ways that could really disarm each other. So you can come back closer. So you don't end the night in that gridlock argument.
William Curb: One thing that my kids brought back from school is like three hand squeezes means I love you. And that's like a really easy just be like, oh, like I've been walking with my wife or my kids and just, you know, quick three hand squeezes and don't have to say anything, especially with neurodivergence and can be hard to talk when you're upset. So that's like a great way to be like, I'm not talking but still here with you.
Tracy Dalgleish: Yeah, it's the, we're not gonna be able to resolve everything instantly. And I do think that's the other piece of couples really creating this roadmap of each other. And you can do this for every member in your family.
The roadmap of when William's upset, it doesn't work for me to come and give more words to him. But instead I can do the three hand squeezes to say, hey, we're good. Don't worry, we're on the same team.
I'm in this with you. And I think when we even tap into that, it touches on these core needs that we all have. And core needs are not things like, I need help with the dishes.
They're not boundaries like tell your mom we're not coming for Thanksgiving dinner. They're things about what's deeper inside of us that are attached to attachment longings. And that's, I need to know that I belong here. I need to feel connection. I need freedom and power.
Power is a good thing, not a bad thing. There, I highlight them in one of my sections of the book because the fourth step really does help couples set those limits and boundaries so that they can be on the same team and communicate that. But in order to do this boundary piece, because of course boundaries are a hot word, it's what we talk about all the time when it comes to excited family members, when it comes to each other and our relationship, when it comes to our kids. What's the boundary really about? And that's what we need to discover to come back together.
William Curb: Yeah, and it's one thing I always try to remind people when we talk about boundaries is people can't break your boundaries. You're breaking them yourself because it's what you're setting up as your what's acceptable.
Tracy Dalgleish: We're going there, William, I love this. It's so important because a lot of people come and say, I set the boundary, I'll use mother-in-law again, just given the topic of our book. I set the boundary with my mother-in-law, even my husband said it and said, hey, mom, don't come over unannounced. We're not gonna open the door to you unannounced because baby sleeping, maybe mom's feeding or nursing or whatever it is that she's doing, she's in the shower, she's sleeping, whatever. And when mom comes over and knocks on the door unannounced on Tuesday afternoon, and my client says, I say to my client, so what did you do?
And she says, well, I let her in, she shows up on my door. She's not respecting my boundaries. And my response to her is, you didn't respect your boundary. You didn't uphold the limit to her.
And so when we make requests to people, they can do what they want, but the boundary is whether I'm gonna let you in or not because that's my choice. I can't control if she drives by and stops in the driveway. I can't control how often she knocks on my doorway, but I get to have a sense of agency and choice around what I'm willing or not willing to do. And those moments when she arrives and the door is stepped unannounced.
William Curb: Yeah, and by not holding to your side of the thing, you're telling them, well, yeah, this is actually okay.
Tracy Dalgleish: You give permission to other people. It's so interesting when we think about how we communicate with people. A lot of people will say, but yeah, I told them that I didn't wanna talk about ADHD or I didn't wanna talk about parenting choices right now. And I gave them all the reasons why we're doing the things that we're doing. And so I'll say to clients, oh, so you gave permission to talk about it by listing off all of the justifications for why you're doing the thing. And that I think is something that we often lose touch with is that a boundary is not about you having to over explain yourself for your decision, your choice or your need.
William Curb: Yeah, because yeah, someone like brings up a topic. It's like, oh, I'm not comfortable talking about that. They keep doing it. You're like, I'm gonna have to leave the conversation.
Tracy Dalgleish: Yes, and then we can talk about self boundaries where you're at the Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner table and your body is holding on to, because you know at every dinner, someone brings up politics and then they bring it up and you're like, oh, so what are you gonna do in that moment?
You can't control them. You get to choose, am I gonna engage in this conversation? Or that self boundary is, I'm not going to engage in this.
So you get up, you go to the bathroom, you splash cold water on your face, maybe you vent to the text buddy and be like, oh my gosh, here we go again. We're right in politics as expected, right? Because I always love to say that families are predictable and consistent. And then you go back to the table and if the conversations moved on, then you start talking about the chiefs or whatever sport you're watching, the Blue Jays here in Canada are doing really well in baseball right now. So whatever shows up.
William Curb: There's always something else to talk about, especially as neurodivergent individuals where we have lots of interests and you know what, they're not interested. It doesn't matter because I'm still interested in talking about my Lego collection or whatever.
Tracy Dalgleish: Yeah, I love that.
William Curb: One of the things that this was making me think about here is just how with this relationship with ADHD, it's this complication that gets added in. It's not, this is something that everyone's going to be dealing with, but you also have this just add flair. So like we're talking about, yeah, we have, with the self boundaries, we have this added in aspect of impulsivity, like even if we have, I'm not going to talk about this, but you just said the one thing that triggered so many things in my head, I cannot stop.
Tracy Dalgleish: And then is that extra layer in there? I'm curious for you, what do you do in those moments where you feel like getting into those conversations that maybe you don't want to, or you get side railed down something that you didn't really want to do. What is it that, like what's your top hack that you use?
William Curb: It depends on how hot button the issue is from my brain where someone says something, I'm like, just think of a recent example where someone was talking to about trans rights stuff and had not a opinion I was really happy with. And I was just like, yeah, we're just not going to have that going on. Like that's not okay.
You need like trans rights or human rights. You cannot just ignore this and walk away from the situation because it was not something I was like, I'm not going to change your opinion. And I'm just going to be mad if I keep doing this.
Tracy Dalgleish: Of course. So I think it's really interesting with that. So I think there's this element here where an earlier I said family is, they're predictable and consistent. So you can almost know that if every holiday event, someone makes a body comment or someone makes a trans comment, you can prepare yourself for that. And that's the preparation. And you and your partner can sit down and say, what are we going to do in this moment?
Especially, you know, many parents tackle this, what are we going to do in front of our kids? And that, William is that fifth step in my book, so in my book, it's the vault method. There's five steps to help you and your partner get on the same team and have that better relationship. And I really walk couples through of identifying who you are, what you bring into the relationship, who your mother-in-law is, and what she brings into this dynamic. And I think for a lot of us then, we have to sit down ahead of time and say, how do we want to deal with this when it happens? And what things are we going to put into place to ensure we're on the same team? And also recognizing, I know you say this here with your listeners, we're human, we're going to make mistakes. So when we leave that family event to not rail at each other, right?
So here's the example that commonly shows up at my therapy room. The family event happens, they had the plan, it didn't go as planned, they get into the car, and she's angry at her husband. You said you were going to, and then you didn't.
And all of this happened, right? So you were supposed to say something when your mom criticized our kid's appearance or something like that. And then partner misses it. All of the other things that we're looking on in there, I talk a lot in the book about how our nervous systems go on autopilot when we're in the context of family systems, because that's how our bodies learn to stay safe. That's how our brains learn to survive and remain connected to caregivers as children.
We repeat those patterns as we grow up. And so what we want to do after these events is also spend time first acknowledging what you both did really well. And how you had this plan, you slowed it down, you looked at what you were going to do, and it didn't come out that way. And that's okay, because now we have more information that we can learn what to do next time. But we have to come in with compassion and curiosity for each other, and not criticism and contempt.
William Curb: And I find one thing that's always been helpful for me is just to be, to slow it out and be like, not stewing the emotion, but be like, hey, this is how I'm feeling, this is why. This is especially helpful with my kids when I'm like, they are minutes away from everything going wrong today because I lose my cool.
And so I'm just like, hey, this is what you're doing right now is really frustrating me, and we need to figure out how we can get through this. The first time I did this, and they're like, oh, okay. I was like, oh, they had no idea that this was what was going on. And that was like a huge label for me. I'm like, oh, this communication piece applies to all my relationships.
Tracy Dalgleish: Yes, and because it's what you're doing there too, and I think a lot of parents miss doing this with their kids, you're doing self and other, and that what creates a healthy relationship. You're saying me, dad, William, I'm having an experience. And I'm letting you know, it's not your fault. I'm not yelling at you or shaming you or blaming you, and we're not doing all that messy stuff. But we're just saying, I'm having an experience. And then the other person, in this case, your kids, can say, oh, okay, that's good to know.
Thanks for letting us know. And then we can then all figure out what we need to do next. We're gonna raise volume, we're gonna decrease volumes.
We're gonna kind of maybe raise body movements, like whatever that is that's needed for everybody. But I want to really put this in the context of relationships because I think oftentimes what people do is they get stuck in the content. And oftentimes when couples are in my therapy room, I'm not really looking for who's right or wrong.
And I've had couples argue over things that you wouldn't even believe. I mean, how to boil a pot of water the right way. It wasn't about the pot of water, by the way.
How to cut vegetables was the start of an argument, which again, it's not about cutting vegetables. But there's this element in here where we want to walk around what's happening in that moment. And you doing that is saying, whoo, I'm feeling frustrated right now, I need this. So you're not going into the issue. You're just simply saying, I'm having this experience and here's what I need. And it's so powerful.
William Curb: Yeah, absolutely. And it's one of those things where it goes back to the, we're on the same team. And it's when you're not feeling on the same team, that's really hard to do. But when you bring it back, you need this same thing with the, I'm waiting for the apology kind of thing where I've been in that situation.
And then at some point, I'm just like, why am I waiting for an apology? That's not how teams work. If I'm a teammate, I'm gonna help them get to it. Yes.
Tracy Dalgleish: I'm gonna initiate this and come together with them. Yeah.
William Curb: And it's something I always want to model to my kids is like, if I mess up with them, I apologize. Cause that's an important thing to do. Such a powerful skill. And then also do really work on the aspect of actually apologizing and not being like, I'm sorry I made you feel that way. Or I- I'm sorry, but- Yeah, I'm sorry, but or the, because you did this. And it's like, no, this is, I need to, it was not okay for me to say that or to yell or whatever. I'm sorry that I did that. Let's try and work it so that we won't make this happen again.
Tracy Dalgleish: That ability to come back together is such a powerful skill. And I say to people, drop your ego. It's not about you being wrong. Recognize that you're putting your relationship before your need to be right. And that will get you a long way.
William Curb: All right. I was wondering if you had any final thoughts that you wanted to leave the audience with.
Tracy Dalgleish: Yeah, you know, I'm thinking about my book coming out and just how many people struggle with this conversation. And I want people to know that this is a book that's for you to build and strengthen relationships. So whether you have a good relationship with your mother-in-law or you are about to get married or you're about to have a baby or you know your friend is gonna have a baby soon, right? We know these big milestones show up for all people in some way. And something that's so powerful is being able to have the skills and tools and awareness of this ahead of time so you and your partner can get the same page because that piece about you being on the same page really helps you to navigate all of this stress that's gonna show up. And just remember that as long as we're coming back together and repairing and we're not hurting each other and using vulnerability as something to weaponize against them when we can come back together, that's just everything.
William Curb: Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. I'm sure a lot of people really got a lot out of this.
Tracy Dalgleish: Thank you so much, William. And thank you for everyone who tuned in today.
This Episode's Top Tips
Work on shifting from “Me vs. You” to “Us vs. the Problem” mentality. This shift in mindset can completely change how a couple navigates conflict. By reframing the conflict, you turn what could’ve been another argument into a shared problem. And I do want to add on here as well that this is a learned skill and takes time to develop, but is well worth doing.
Boundaries aren’t about controlling someone else’s behavior; they’re about choosing how you’ll respond. We often sabotage our own boundaries by overexplaining them, giving people justifications that sound like permission to debate our choices. You can’t stop someone from knocking, but you can decide whether you’ll open the door.
Try building a “Roadmap” of each other’s regulation styles. While everyone has a different way of dealing with stress (and with ADHD, emotional regulation can be unpredictable), knowing them in advance can help prevent some frustrating moments.