This week I had a great conversation with leadership coach Leigh Collier. In this episode we go over the process of how she helps individuals discover the best version of themselves by overcoming limiting beliefs. We also delve into topics such as identifying personal strengths, the importance of seeking support from communities, and get into how we can challenge those self-limiting beliefs. We also go over the value of individuality, working with your own brain, and distinguishing coaching from mentoring or therapy.
William Curb: So can you tell me a little bit about leadership coaching? What's your approach for coaching here?
Leigh Collier: My approach to leadership coaching. So I have people that come to me when they want to improve their leadership, get promotions to leadership, or just generally give themselves the skills to be able to move into a leadership role. When they come to me with these things in mind, we're going to start talking about who they are as a person, what they're good at, and how we can get them to the place that they need to be. Because my approach to leadership coaching is that the person in front of me is the expert in who they are, and every person is different. I'm not going to prescribe a set way that we're going to go about this.
For me, it's very much driven by the leader in front of me and where they need to go on any particular day. So whatever the topic that is bothering them, we're going to follow that topic and we're going to work through whatever they need to work through to get them to where they need to be. I do a lot of coaching with neurodivergent people. That role kind of found me.
I didn't initially set out to do it, but I suddenly realized after two days in a row where I had conversations with clients, first sessions, ADHD came up both times, I kind of realized that this was a common occurrence. And so it's somewhere that I've leaned into. And for me, it's very much about recognizing that the person in front of you is going to have their own ways of doing it regardless of their neurotype or how they go about their life and really tailoring it to what they're doing and helping them find their own solutions because they are the expert in who they are.
William Curb: Yeah, I absolutely find that people with neurodivergence attract each other. It's just kind of like, oh, that's how my brain works. I want to go there. And what you were talking to was also making me think about how loose definition leadership is too in many senses because there's a lot of ways that it applies. Because it's not just being like that person's the boss, who's in charge in a certain group environment.
It's still leadership when you're with a group of friends and deciding which restaurant you're getting lunch at or what movie you're going to see kind of stuff. And I also think it's an important thing for people with neurodivergence to really look at because often it can be hard to get into those roles. because of some of the symptoms of ADHD being disorganized or any number of things. And it can be hard to hit those roles, not because we wouldn't be good at them or don't want them, but because we're also dealing with the symptoms of ADHD.
Leigh Collier: Talking about the different ways you can lead, the first is self-leadership. It's leading ourselves and making us perform in the best way that we can. So I think a really great place to start with that is leading yourselves by finding out what tools work for you so that you can deliver on all the things that you want to deliver on, whether it's personal projects or anything like that. That's kind of a big reason why I'm such an advocate for coaching because it's always a case of there are traditional ways that we see people lead, but there's a whole variety of different ways in which you can be a leader.
And so by working with you to find out what your strengths are in leading, then we kind of work in a way that works for you and works with your ADHD or whatever it may be to make sure that you're producing the best leadership capabilities you can be.
William Curb: I absolutely love that point because it is so important to work with your own brain for these things because just because something is the best technique or whatever, it doesn't mean it's the best technique for you.
Leigh Collier: Yeah, I completely agree with that.
William Curb: There's also going to something that we were talking about before, it's like this difference between coaching and mentoring. It's not just going to you and you being like, this is how you're going to do things.
Leigh Collier: Yeah, that's a really important distinction for me actually, because a lot of people are more familiar with what mentoring is. And I think for a lot of people actually how we get into the coaching world is through mentoring because we want someone to tell us what to do or we
really like imparting our wisdom. Everyone loves giving advice, but the fact is that as good as we think our advice is, it might not be the best advice for the person in front of us.
They might be 20 years younger and therefore what applied back to the time we did XYZ might not apply now or the economic environment might be different. There's so many different ways, not even touching on neurotypes where someone can be different to us and the advice just doesn't apply. And so when it comes to mentoring, there is absolutely a place for that, especially if there's something specific someone needs to learn. And I'm a big advocate of mentoring.
But what I like about coaching is a really nice compliment to that. Is it 100 % working with your brain? And so when I'm coaching someone, I'm never going to tell them, I think you should do this, because it might be the complete wrong thing for them. And even if I ask them a question and exploring in a certain direction, and they tell me, no, that doesn't work for me, fine, we're going to go a different way because you're the expert in you. And we'll just find what works for you.
William Curb: Yeah, I mean, I found that in so many cases too, because it's so much more empowering that way too, because finding the answers yourself, you go, Oh, okay, I get this, this is the way I need to go. And this is going to be what actually helps me. But then you're like excited to do it. You're like, Oh, I can do this.
Leigh Collier: Yeah, exactly that. Yeah. The amount of times I've had people be like, if I knew how to do it myself, then I would have done it. And then we get later in the conversation, they have that light bulb moment, they come up with what they're going to do, and they work it out. And then, you know, they get really excited.
Sometimes, you know, we've been booked out for full hour, and then 45 minutes in, they just have this big realization, I see they're so excited to just go and do the thing, I'm like, go do the thing, we'll catch up again another time.
William Curb: Yeah. And it really makes the coach a lot more like a facilitator or your own ideas, which is, again, just the pinnacle of what people need to have.
Leigh Collier: Yeah, 100%.
William Curb: And I do understand a lot of people do want this, like, I just want someone to tell me what to do, and I'll do it, and it'll be great. And as much as I want that, I also know it doesn't work with my neurodivergence, because someone tells me what to do, I'm like, well, I'm not going to do that now. That sounds boring. Exactly. Yeah. And it's like, brain, why you got to be like that?
Leigh Collier: Yeah, even if you know it's possibly the right thing to do, making quotes around that, or even if it sounds like it's a good idea, sometimes you're just not ready to hear that, or you just don't want to hear that, you don't want to be told what to do. But if you arrive at something yourself, you have that ownership and self-accountability that you did this, and so you're going to go and do it.
William Curb: Yeah. And then I think the benefit with working with a coach too, is sometimes I also have the thing where I'm like, oh, I've had the perfect idea. And I'm like, I'll say to someone, they're like, are you sure though? maybe you should step back and rethink that just a little bit. Like, oh, I just have to never sleep. And people are like, really? That does not sound like the best plan here.
Leigh Collier: I would love if that plan worked. I think I would benefit from that too. But yeah, it's all about widening those perspectives. Why it's really good. Sometimes we think things suit in our heads and sometimes we get a bit caught up in what we're thinking and sometimes just saying things out loud, speaking them through with someone else really opens things up. And if we have someone who's going to ask us those kind of questions, like, what's making you think of it this way? What about this? It really helps us kind of think through things a bit more and come to a bit more of a reasonable conclusion in some cases or just come up with something that was there all along.
William Curb: Yeah, it's a little bit like the cognitive behavioral therapy kind of thing where you just get to question thoughts. You know, it's like, is that true? Yeah. When you're like, oh, I can never do this. Well, is that really true?
Leigh Collier: Yes. I love to pull people on a self-limiting perception when they say, I can never. I'm like, where did that come from?
William Curb: And it's really important for us to like actually think about like, OK, where did we get that from? And all those like limiting beliefs are really important for us to be challenging. Yeah. Yeah. It applies very strongly in leadership positions, especially with neurodivergent where we're like, I could never be a leader. I could never be the one in charge. I'm never going to be organized enough to do that.
OK. But even if that's true, could we mitigate those factors?
Leigh Collier: 100 percent. It's self-limiting perception is something I come across quite a lot in a lot of my neurodivergent coaching. And sometimes it's just widening the perspective of the, yeah, OK, maybe some things are going to be harder. But what are all these things you bring? I'm very big on highlighting what people's strengths are. That to me is where there's so much kind of potential there.
Because we all tend to think of all the reasons why we can't, all the reasons why we're not good enough, we're not able, all the things that are holding us back. And we tend to not notice these amazing strengths that we have. And the reason why we can do all these things is because we manage the things we're not good at, but it's the things that we are good at. really other things we thrive and are really going to make us into fantastic leaders.
William Curb: Yeah, I was found when I am good at something, my brain goes, well, because you're good at it, it can't be that hard. It just like dismisses things that I'm good at. I'm like, oh, kind of reframe some of these ideas, because really focusing on our strengths is a great thing for us to do as neurodivergent people. Don't want to completely discount shoring up our weaknesses, because I think doing things on both sides is important.
Leigh Collier: Definitely, yeah, definitely.
William Curb: I'm like, as long as I'm not completely unreliable, because if I'm completely unreliable on something, it's just going to be this, that does need to be addressed somehow, but it does not necessarily need to come from me being like, well, I just need to be better. Maybe I need to hire an assistant or get someone to help me clean or whatever it is.
Leigh Collier: Yes, exactly that. 100%. It's all kind of finding the tools and the styles of managing the things that you struggle with so you can show up as the best version of yourself.
William Curb: I'm curious more like how as a coach, you'd really go about the process of helping people find that best version of themselves.
Leigh Collier: So one thing that I will do is I take them through an exercise on identifying their strengths. So they have something on paper that says, this is what I'm good at, and I use an external tool for that.
So we have a starting point for them to look at there. And what's interesting is sometimes people read them and they immediately see where this works with their life or where they can draw examples from it in their lives. But some things they see, they haven't actually identified with and it's coming through in the support of something they're really good at. And sometimes it's a case of exploring to them what their feelings are around that and then seeing those light bulbs come off and they're like, ah, actually in this particular situation, this has come through and so on and so forth. And so quite often it is a case of you probe with them and you see what's coming up for them and what their feelings are about these things, what they identify with and what they don't.
And that kind of builds a picture to them of what's good about them. And also challenging when they come up with those self-limiting beliefs. Sometimes it's a case of like challenging those because on the other side of that is maybe a strength that's overplayed and maybe that's why they're seeing it as a weakness. But actually, it's you're really good at this thing. And because you're really good at this thing, sometimes you get this side effect that's not so good. So how do we manage that a little bit better so that you don't overplay your strengths too much to the detriment?
William Curb: Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm thinking about these self-limiting beliefs and how we'd go about being better at identifying them. Because I know there's certain things I'm like, oh yeah, that's definitely self-limiting belief for myself. But other things that are so wrapped in my identity, I don't even realize they're self-limiting belief.
Leigh Collier: That's very interesting. In a lot of coaching sessions, you hear someone say the words, I can't, I should or I shouldn't, or like I need to. And I'm always the moment I hear those words, my ears pick up because I'm like, there's something hidden there. And sometimes I'll say to someone, I think I just heard you say, I can't. And that's the first time they've ever heard that they've said that. Sometimes I can literally have just said something to you and not even heard themselves say it. And it's not until you play that back to them that they realize that that's words that came out of their mouth.
And so that's a perception that they have. I always give them the opportunity. If they don't identify with that yet and they're not willing to go there yet, I'll always say, I think I heard this. And if they say no, that's fine. We don't have to tackle that now. If it's, it's not something they're ready to tackle now. But other times, you'll say back to them, I can't, whatever the belief may be or whatever it is. And it's the first time they've heard that. And so there's a lot of thinking and reflecting and piecing together things that they hadn't even realized they said that led them to this belief, which we can then tackle.
William Curb: Because it's so easy for us to just not even realize that we're having these limiting beliefs. We're like, oh, yeah, I don't have any limiting beliefs. And it's like, well, what about all these things that apply to your ADHD where you're like, oh, I could never remember to do blah, blah, blah. It's like, maybe you couldn't do it on your own, but if you had supports, maybe you could do it.
Leigh Collier: Absolutely. Yeah.
William Curb: And again, this is why it's so important. to be like working with someone doing these things because it's so easy for us to like not hear our own thoughts. Yeah. Just glide past them being like, yeah, that's true. Don't need to think about that anymore.
Leigh Collier: Yeah. And even with like my coach training, I can't coach myself, right? Even though I'm aware of all these things, I still have my own self-limited beliefs and perceptions that come up. And, you know, I then work with a coach to address my own. It doesn't matter how much you know, you're that objective person who's replaying the stuff you said, widening your perspective. That really helps. Even if everything is deep down inside of you and you kind of know, but you just haven't realized yet.
William Curb: Yeah. It's very easy to be dismissive of our own thoughts. One of the things I like to say is to not believe everything I think. You don't have to believe everything you think. Because I know I think a lot of things are just wrong. Yeah. And it's important for me to be like, okay, I should expand that to be like, there's more than I even realize.
Leigh Collier: For sure.
William Curb: Especially around these limiting beliefs. You know, I've been looking to do more stuff with the podcast recently and it's going to be like, what's holding me back from doing more? And a lot of it is just, you know, my own thoughts about what I'm able to do.
Leigh Collier: Yeah. And even if, you know, you can't work with a coach, sometimes just saying things out loud to a friend, family member, someone you trust, just lets you sort things out in your head as you're going through it. As a coach, I have to be very clear on knowing where the line between coaching and therapy is. I've had a client who was having a really tough time and actually therapy is what they needed. So we paused all the coaching sessions because they needed to go sort some stuff out in therapy and then we came back to it when they were ready.
And I mean, for me, a really clear difference that I have in my mind is therapy. You kind of look back at your past, where things came from with the goal of helping you heal in the present. For me, coaching is taking where you are today and looking at how we can make you grow.
William Curb: And I think they work really well in combination if you're working with a therapist and a coach at the same time. Because, again, with these limiting belief, a lot of times they come from something in our past.
Leigh Collier: Yeah.
William Curb: One of the ones I was working on recently was like feeling like I could never finish any projects and being like, okay, well, we're in my history. did I pick up that belief so many places in my life where I'm like, oh, it wasn't just me saying that that was like other people around me, you know, making small comments or whatever, you know, like, and that stuff I will need to work through still.
Leigh Collier: Of course. Yeah. It's always interesting what you internalize. If you can have a therapist, mentor and a coach, then you've hit the jackpot.
William Curb: Absolutely. Yeah. That's like one of the most important things for ADHD and neurodivergent in general is having that community around you to help you have that support.
Leigh Collier: Completely. I'm move in a lot of neurodivergent spaces and such amazing communities there to just all be supportive of each other. We alternate who's having a bad day and who needs a bit of support. And it's just fantastic to have people there who you can rely on for sure.
William Curb: Because as much as we want to think that we need to do it all on our own, it doesn't really work like that and work so much better when you have other people around you.
Leigh Collier: I mean, one of the things I often ask in coaching is what support do you have who's around you? Because it's just so important. And sometimes we either forget that they're there or we're a little bit too scared to reach out because we don't want to bother them. But sometimes just acknowledging that these people are there for you can give you that boost that you need to reach out to them, get some help, get some support and feel a little bit better.
William Curb: That's definitely a limiting belief. We can challenge this being that I have to do it on my own and that if I ask someone else, I'm going to be bothering them. It's like, no, I have people send me emails. I might do not get back to all of them, but I love responding to people when I can because it's what I'm doing this.
Leigh Collier: Absolutely. Yeah. I think recognizing that everyone has potential in them, regardless of what you might be struggling in this moment in time, you have potential to be this amazing person. And if you need a little bit of help to get you there, it's okay. You can take that help and you can thrive and be the best person you can be.
William Curb: Awesome. And if people want to find more about your coaching work, where should they go?
Leigh Collier: They can go to TTNcoaching.com.
William Curb: Awesome. I'll have that in the show notes. And thank you so much for coming on the show. I really enjoyed having this conversation.
Leigh Collier: Brilliant. Thank you very much. I've really enjoyed it as well.
This Episode’s Top Tips
Those of us with ADHD can face a lot of various challenges when trying to take on a leadership role. Because of this, it is crucial for us to embrace self-leadership and find tools and techniques that work for our brains. We need to experiment with different approaches to enhance our performance and productivity to help us overcome the obstacles that can come up due to our ADHD.
It’s important for us to understand the distinction between coaching and mentoring. While mentoring involves imparting wisdom and advice, coaching focuses on facilitating the individual's self-discovery and helping them find their own solutions. Coaching is meant to empower us to think critically, question self-limiting beliefs, and develop a sense of ownership and build self-accountability.
We need to be able to recognize the self-limiting beliefs that may be holding us back and preventing us from reaching our full potential. This means that we need to question the thoughts and beliefs we have about ourselves and challenge their validity. We can gain a fresh perspective and develop strategies to help overcome these beliefs by working with a coach or therapist.
If we can focus on identifying and leveraging our strengths, we can use those to help propel ourselves in the right direction. We can recognize that our strengths are unique to us and that they can help contribute to our success as leaders.