The Power of Accountability with Sharon Pope of Shelpful

William Curb: I'm here with Sharon Pope, she is the CEO of CEO and founder of the company Shelpful, which helps provide accountability to people for pretty much anything they need. So can you tell me a little bit about yourself and a little bit about Shelpful.

Sharon Pope: Yes, William, thank you so much for having me on so shameful, like you said, it's an instant accountability service that helps you form new habits and stick to them.

So we pair you with a real human person. So it's kind of like Uber. Right. So we have the people, we have the accountability buddies and we, we match you with them. Um, either a buddy or a group, we have groups as well. So, you know, a group of three to five people all working on the same habit. And it really is kind of the support system that you've always blacked in some of these habits or things you were trying to.

Accomplished for yourself. So if you're trying to get more movement or eat more nutritious foods, the fact that you were having to kind of answer to someone on a daily, daily basis throughout the day, Somehow makes you do it. Um, and it's, you know, we've launched this year and are lucky to have found a lot of members who have been able to help.

William Curb: Awesome. So does it work through an app or just texting?

Sharon Pope: It's through text message. So you sign up and, it's all through texts. , so it's harder to ignore because we all have a lot of experience using notifications that maybe are telling us to work out or reminding us to eat or drink water, , or meditate.

We, you have a real person texting you saying, Hey William, have you eaten yet? It's noon. And that's one of your goals is to not forget to eat all day. So you have that person who's in your texts and making you do yourself.

William Curb: It sounds awesome because I know accountability is something I talked about on this podcast a lot, because it is key for so many things because, despite our best intentions, it's easy to just go, well, today's an exception and do that for a month straight.

Sharon Pope: Right. And I, and the exceptions or just life. I don't think that any of us are like, I'm not going to do this today. I mean, I certainly, I think most of the times it's just that an email comes in a baby cries, a dog needs to be let out. I mean, life happens and at the end of the day at 10 o'clock at night, your spinning your mind thinking, well, gosh, why didn't I do that today?

Like, what's wrong with me that I did everything else for everyone else. And I didn't do something for myself. And that was my own problem. Right? I was beating myself up every night because I didn't pack my lunch. Or get just even five minutes of movement in when that's what I really, really wanted to do.

And I just felt like I needed some, I needed more support.

William Curb: Yeah. Well, I, I find it very easy to rationalize in the moment. And then later when I'm ruminating at night being like that rationalization didn't count, what was I thinking?

Sharon Pope: Right.

William Curb: There's that disconnect between how I feel then and how I feel now and how I'm going to feel in the future.

Sharon Pope: Absolutely. And also just kind of that, that pull to look at the fiery shiny thing that it's taking your attention away from the thing that if you did do your budget or make it to do the list or whatever the thing is that you're putting off, you probably would have a better day, but the, just the way life works, all the other stuff just seems on fire and kind of just pulls us in.

And so we forget about ourselves.

William Curb: So how did you kind of come up with the idea to do this? Because this is something that's popped into my head before, but not been able to really articulate into like actually being something, because I do stuff with an accountability team that we just meet with, but it's not the same as like an actual service.

Sharon Pope: Yeah. this has been this problem - my 10:00 PM problem - is one that I've had for 10 years, probably. I've been, I was a startup executive for 15 years. Kind of fast paced life, a lot of work, and I kind of just always had this problem where I felt like crap at the end of the day cause I felt like I didn't take care of myself.

And I always was on the lookout for, so it was, I think, just like you I'm like something like this is gonna come like, and I would try different things and I just never could really find it. And then I had my second kid he was born in 2020 and I was just going back to work, In my mind, I was like, well, if no, one's going to make it, I'm going to make it myself. So I went over to my best friend's house, Lydia, convinced her, somehow, to do this with me. And we launched it later that week. So we, we launched like an MVP MVP, like it means a minimally viable product.

So we launched just kind of the bare minimum and got people signed up immediately. So we had people paying us that same week and it just clicked for me that this was something that other people needed. And the other thing that clicked for me was when members signed up, they in the comment box, we're putting, this is perfect for me because I have ADHD.

And I like it, you know? But your listeners probably don't. This is how I found out. I had ADHD because everyone was listing the symptoms of their ADHD. And those were the symptoms I was actually to solve for, with Shelpful. So after I had, by the way been, multiple doctors had told me I got too good of grades or I did too well at work my whole life.

And so I finally talked to my doctor, got, you know, the professional advice I needed and it's been so illuminating for me. and in that way have discovered your community and the ADHD community at large, which has been so supportive and helpful for me in addition,to being a Shelpful user myself.

William Curb: Yeah, I was curious if you were using the service because it's one of those things where sometimes you go into something, well, I've made this. Sure. Am I supposed to use it?

Sharon Pope: I know I was so, so desperate to use it. Um, so I'm in a group, it's a Shelpful group it's for movement. So getting daily movement and, and, staying hydrated. Those are the two focuses of the group and it's me and three other people. We have a shelper who asks us every day. What are your plans We all help each other strategize when we are, you know, when life is getting in the way and I've, I've never gotten such regular movement in my entire life.

William Curb: Yeah and movement so important for managing ADHD.

Sharon Pope: Yes. Oh my God. It's been, it's been transformative for me. I've been able to now see it as, as medicine for me that if I get 20 minutes in the morning, then that's medicine. It's not just, there's no other goal than just literally having a better day that day.

William Curb: Yeah. It's all the, and it literally is medicine with like all the endorphins and chemicals that are released into your brain. It's like, yeah., this changes how your day is going to go.

Sharon Pope: Right. And I think that, I guess, and this is true of ADHD in general, right? We're things that seem simple to the outside world are actually really hard sometimes for people with ADHD.

I think, I guess anybody could view movement as medicine. Right. Cause it's good for everybody. But for me, this is where it really clicked because it was an instantly better day. And I was able to connect that, that I uniquely needed this, and it wasn't very optional for me, which I was just so helpful for me in processing this new experience.

William Curb: Yeah. And it is amazing when you actually see all the symptoms of ADHD and you go, oh, this is very different than what's presented in pop culture.

Sharon Pope: Absolutely. I feel like ADHD is having a bit of a moment though. I think that there's so much more awareness now and I I'm of course more tuned into it now, just having that diagnosis myself and, and having so many members of Shelpful, who have ADHD, but it is so mis-characterized that the fact that you can't be suffering even if you, you seem okay on the outside.

So yeah, I've learned so much it's just amazing that in starting this company, not only have I been able to, create something that is helping people, like I genuinely feel it is, but I've helped myself too. So it's just been the most enriching thing I've ever done.

William Curb: Yeah. I mean, that's how the best things get made is just scratching your own itch. Being like, this is why I do this podcast is I wanted a way to to make sure I was doing the research on all these things.

Sharon Pope: Right. I think that similar to you, your example of the podcast, and I know you do like a study hall too, right? That there is, I mean, as humans, we. I mean the, the concept of peer pressure and the concept of this kind of social judgment, these things that can be negative things in our lives can also flip and be a positive.

We call it the accountability buddies shelpers so if you're doing one-on-one, you'd be assigned to your and shelper and a group would have a shelper. And so, because you know, your shelper is going to ask, like, I know at like around six thirty or seven, My shelter is going to say, okay, how the movement go? Did you get in bed early as planned, which is another one of my goals. And did you get your movement in early? And I want to be able to say yes, like I want to please her. I want to please the other group members and I win too. So it's kind of this peer pressure for good, I think in many ways.

William Curb: Weaponizing our internal people pleaser.

Sharon Pope: Right. And it's like, you're the one who benefits in the end. So we'll take it.

So, yeah. And the core product is really all on texts anyway. So you sign up, you get matched with a shelper so, you know, we match you based on what your, the habits are that you've told us you want a form. So anything from exercise or we've talked about exercise, but also like budgeting. So you want to cancel subscriptions once a week or save money, every two weeks. Literally, any habit, any new year's resolution you've ever said, anything that's ever been on that list for you, works.

And so we, we get you going on. We'll ask some follow-up questions once you book your onboarding and it's a free trial, so you can try it for free for three days. And you essentially, your shelper will try to try and make your habits manageable. So if you don't run it all today and you want to run a marathon, they might suggest, Hey, how about we shoot for just five minutes a day at first and go on, but they're going to immediately start holding you accountable, like day one.

And, it's all over text, so there'll be kind of texting you, Hey, what's the plan this morning and there'll be texting you to follow up. Did you do it? so you kind of it's it just lives there.

William Curb: Yeah, so I got a few, few ideas that I'm curious about. So I know for a lot of people, when they're, they're having trouble, their tendency is to just go radio silent and just ignore everything. And I'm sure that's something that happens. And just curious how you, deal with those situations.

Sharon Pope: Such a good question, William. Cause we have seen it and I can relate to that too. I think that, we will see people kind of just disappear for a couple of days and you know, their shelper will give them a little space checking on them. They're not going to just like be spamming them. And we'll kind of just say like, "Hey, let me know if you need a couple of days to decompress, I'm here for you when you want to pick back up." And they'll remind them of why they signed up. Right. So it's, we're not in the business of guilting somebody. And I think all of us need rest days.

If your goal is to work out every day, then please take a break. Sometimes we're not, we're not trying to remake you, but we do want to remind you our shelpers will take the initiative to say you know, "I know that this is really important to you. You've told me it's important because of X, Y, Z, if you want to restrategize, I'm here for it. so just text me when you're ready," and they'll come back, you know, I think that they form relationship it's the same person, so they feel that need to kind of update that friend and, tell them what's up with them.

William Curb: Yeah. Cause. Not crazy about what I go radio silent on things. I'm just like, why, why, why can't I don't even, I know they're not even going to be disappointed in me. They're just specifically with like my accountability group. Like I know they're not going to be disappointed that I didn't do the thing I said I was going to do. They're going to want to just support me, but it's so easy to get into my head

Sharon Pope: And I think that's and it's, yeah. I don't know why we do that, but I think it is human nature that sometimes when just everything feels too much, you just want to turn it all off. And I think that can be good for you.

So I don't, we we're not discouraging anyone from that. And I think sometimes it's something we can hold people accountable for is for taking a break. Right. So, the shelter might suggest. why don't you take a few days off from everything I'll and I'll hold you accountable, I'll message you on Monday and ask you how you did.

Taking a break is something you could also be held accountable for, I guess is what I'm saying.

William Curb: And I think it's something we, especially with ADHD, we need to be held accountable for. Cause we don't want to take breaks because we feel like we're already behind on everything. So taking a break seems like the worst thing we can do. And often it's being mindful of when you stop working, rather than just working till burnout.

Sharon Pope: Yes

William Curb: so much better.

Sharon Pope: Right. And I think most people end up signing up for like a three month membership or more so like what's a couple of days to, to recharge. And when you know that on the other end, there's somebody who's supportive and cheering you on for taking that break and ready to help you strategize on whatever that habit was that you were working on. Help you start it again. And cheer you on as you do it.

William Curb: Awesome. Yeah. I'm also thinking about these, this difference between, the one-on-one and the groups. Just how that, dynamic trains changes when you have more people - like a difference in success rates or also with the groups. Do you know the people beforehand, or is it something that you kind of get assigned?

Sharon Pope: We have the option for you to bring your own group, but all of our group participants currently were matched within our system. I think it's a side effect of service, like this not really existing before, so. People are really kind of shouting into the internet. I need an accountability buddy. Cause they don't have that in their real life. It's hard for a friend to be an accountability buddy. They don't always hold you accountable in the best way. They'll say," Hey, let's drink wine. Let's have a good time." So that said the difference between a group and the solo Shelpful experience is, well, it really just depends on your goals. If you have a single habit like that, you're really trying to focus on a group is a great fit for you likely, because not only are you getting the shelper, who's the heartbeat of the group right there. They're keeping a steady, they're asking the questions they're following up, but you also have the fellow group members who's success kind of motivates you, right? So that you can kind of get that boost and say, well, if they worked out, I should really work out. Or if they did their budget, I should, I can probably make it happen.

That to me has been super motivating. So I think you get that extra peer motivation from the group, but if you have multiple things that you're working on as individuals tends to be better for you. So if you wanted to, have better sleep routine and you also wanted to make it to do list every night for the next day. And you also want to work out. It's like, if you have a couple things you're trying to do, it makes more sense. Cause it's harder to match you with a group. And you kind of will benefit from that extra attention from the shelper.

William Curb: Yeah. So with how many habits do people generally work on at a time?

Sharon Pope: It varies and we don't cap it because it kind of is self-limiting. So you, William, if you were trying to do 10 habits, we, we not for any product or financial reason, we would tell you. That's not a great idea for you, William, tone that down a little bit. Yeah, let's try, let's try maybe just two or three at a time.

So it really is about two or three and sometimes they're related, And sometimes they're completely not related. so someone might have, an, a goal to do a, to do list every night and they also want their shelper to remind them to take their vitamin. Right? So two, two different things that are important to them, but not as likely to have a perfect group match where you have people who are to-do's and vitamins.

William Curb: Yeah. I can totally see that. Yeah, it does definitely feel like compassionate ass kicking.

Sharon Pope: Yeah, it is. And everyone has their own style, right? You're not talking to a robot. You're talking to a human person. All of our shelters are based in the U S and.

So they each have their own personality and they'll, have fun with you. They love to send GIFs and so you, you know, some will be a little bit firmer, some will be a little bit lighter. And so you can always kind of you'll see what you get and you can tell them your style to what works better for you.

Like, Hey, could you be, could you hold me to this? Or could you remind me by saying this. Because this will really resonate with me. *I think we, we, as fully formed adults know, we know what works for us. We know the habits that work. I think we have a pretty good idea of habits we can do that we're capable of doing. It's just a matter of doing them. That's the hard part.*

We find that our members come in with a pretty good plan and all they need is that support and cheerleading.

William Curb: Yeah. I mean, I think the cheerleading aspect is super important cause it's. stuff that we feel like we should be able to do.

But one of the places I've been wrestling with is if I think something should be easy, but it's not coming easy, then it's not easy

Sharon Pope: A hundred percent. And not only is it not easy, but I, in, in this situation and I'm not sure if you're at the same severely judging myself for it. Like I'm, you know, I asked myself, well, why, why can't you do this simple thing? Why can't you keep your desk tidy like these? Or why couldn't you do that you know, pack your lunch or all those things? I was saying earlier that I wasn't doing over the course of my life. I judged myself for it because it sounded so simple and it's, it's not simple.

William Curb: And it's like, if I can't get myself to do it, there is a disconnect and just trying harder is not going to work. I need to try something else.

Sharon Pope: Yeah. Like does really designing, designing a habit that is doable, that, is small enough to make progress on and feel good about, you know, day one and having accountability or I don't love the word accountability, but it's sometimes the best word we have, but having a person who's counting on you to do it.

William Curb: Yeah. Cause accountability is, yeah. It means different things to different people. Cause for some people very motivating for other people that are like, no, that's that's that needs to over there.

Sharon Pope: Yeah. And I please listeners, if you have a better idea for a way to describe it, I'm always willing to listen, but I sometimes it's the best word we have, but really it's just.

If my kid needs something, I do it. If my boss ever needed anything, I did it. If I needed something, I didn't do it. And I think that's, that's the hole that we're trying to fill.

William Curb: So one thing that I'm also curious about is I'm sure that there are people listening, going, that sounds like a great service. I don't know what I want help with though." Is that something that you guys do as well? Like I'll figure out what people could do.

Sharon Pope: We have not had that. We haven't had the opportunity to help a member with it because I think everyone who's signed up with us needs help on something. They know, they know they have a thing that they're thinking about at 10 o'clock and beating themselves up about.

And so they come in with that and we help them with that. Certainly for, for active members, their shelper might say like, "Hey, well, why don't you do this too?" Or there'll be brainstorming that they would maybe have. Certainly somebody who's been with us for eight months probably has changed up what they've been working on. But we could, I mean, we could certainly help with that or someone, someone can say like, I just want to feel better. I want some ideas, but they usually have some ideas to start with and then brainstorm can start.

William Curb: Yeah. I just know, I sometimes feel like I could do these 20 things.

Sharon Pope: That we get tons yeah. That we have every day. So somebody will list 20 things. And our first question to them in onboarding is, "tell me your top two," just for, for both of our sakes. And so we can start there and then oftentimes those two might have a couple more that are super related. So then you can maybe take on four at a time, but probably not all times.

William Curb: One thing that, so you said all the shelpers are US-based, but do you do stuff internationally?

Sharon Pope: We only serve the US right now, us and Canada. But we we've gotten a lot of requests internationally, just kind of from people hearing about us on Reddit or Facebook groups that they're part of.

So we are really looking forward to being able to expand internationally because we run on text message. It's a tech issue. And also we want to, we want to be able to have local shelters because I think that it matters that someone's on the same time zone as you, so you're not feeling weird about texting them in the middle of the night or something.

William Curb: Yeah. I totally see that because if you're someone was in Australia, it's, you know that that's a big time difference.

Sharon Pope: Yeah. Australia's our number one requested, uh, location. So Australia, we're looking at you.

William Curb: Awesome. And with it, Where do you see Shelpful going in the future? Because since this is your first year, but it sounds like things are going well and it could expand. Where, where are you kind of looking at?

Sharon Pope: Yeah, I think that the, if we are helping people feel more supported and feel successful in their habits, then we're doing our job. So I think that means us continuing to, to build our product. were a tech company as well as a service company, so, and I come from a tech startup background.

So I really see so many opportunities to just make it easier to get support. So, you know, things like allowing. allowing you to kind of plug in your Peloton data so that your shelper can see when you did a workout too. So you didn't have to, you don't have to tell them. So just things to make it easier I think is, important right now people just kind of take a photo of themselves on a Peloton where they, or just of their shoes, or just tell their shelter.

I did it. Yay. so which it works as well for now, but anything that can make it easier. That's what I think about a lot.

William Curb: What I'm thinking about too, is I'm sure there are like certain things that people are success habits that make them more likely to keep, keep on with the service and keep doing what they're doing. Do you have any ideas of what, what keeps people going with the program rather than kind of disappearing.

Sharon Pope: Absolutely. I mean, I think the first step is selection. I think so picking habits that you want to do, that you can do that are, you know, within your ability. And oftentimes that ability question just means making it smaller, right? Making it easier, baby step. And it. There's actually a lot of books about this too.

Right? Tiny Habits, Atomic Habits, are both really good books. I recommend them. But again, I mean, not everyone should have to read a book to be able to start a habit. So I think we pride ourselves on that. The instant fact of Shelpful, you don't have to do a big study session, you can just start and someone will ask you these questions.

Let's make it smaller. Let's, let's start small and grow. That I think is one of the keys to success for members who find Shelpful very, very helpful. I think the other thing is picking things that you can sometimes do, but not don't always do so that you can actually, make it, you're not starting from scratch.

and that, that just kind of gives you almost the boost. You need to know, you can nail something. so if I do my to-do list most days, but sometimes forget if Shelpful can help me do it every day, then I now see, wow, I can do this every day. What else can I do? And I think it just gives you that energy for, I mean, I don't even want to say self-improvement, but just thriving, right? Living a life and living a day that you can feel proud of.

William Curb: Yeah. I love the idea of starting small, and then also just having a support around it because too often I'll be, I'm going to start that habit. I'm going to start it really small. And I started so small that I don't actually put in the effort to make sure it's happening.

Sharon Pope: Yes. And actually, I think the research and even the book, Tiny Habits that I mentioned, one of the key ingredients for that method is celebration. Right? So you pick a small thing, do the small thing. And celebrate. And I think that, it's hard to celebrate by yourself, I mean, that's why humans like social contact that having somebody else say good freaking job, you did that.

Emoji emoji gif gif, you are bad-ass and you should feel amazing. That feels better than just looking at yourself in the mirror and giving a thumbs up or, or whatever you might do.

William Curb: Just curious, can you, if you're just not clicking with your shelper there are ways to just be like, oh, I need to, I'd like the program, but maybe need someone else.

Sharon Pope: Yeah. We have an easy button. So you can change shoppers for any reason at any time with no questions asked. And I, and we offer that really even just like, Hey, if you even needed a fresh start, sometimes it's easier to just start fresh with a new person.

So you don't have to, even, you don't have to undo what you did. You can just say, okay, I want to, I don't want to do the food thing anymore. I feel like I'm going to get track. I want to just do this other thing. Start fresh. No problem.

William Curb: yeah, life hits you and you go, you know, this particular thing isn't working for me anymore

Sharon Pope: that's why we wanted to make it super easy to do. Cause we didn't want that to be the reason somebody didn't have support.

William Curb: Well, this sounds like a really awesome product for anybody, but especially the ADHD community. Cause I can just see so many applications of, I just need a little bit of help. I don't need, you know, like I don't need a personal trainer. It's going to make sure I go to the gym.

Sharon Pope: Right over a third of our members have told us proactively because we don't ask, told us practically that they're neurodiverse.

so. I agree. I think that we've, we've found a good fit with this community and we're really happy to be.

William Curb: So, as we wrap up here, is there anything else you wanted to add in? Of course I'll be making sure to get all of your links and website and stuff in the show notes, but you can also let people know now as well.

We're booking, onboarding times for new years. So if you have, if you're a new year's resolution person or you aren't, which I also think is probably better, if you just want to create a habit that lasts, that's not just a January thing we'd love to help you with it. And we have a sale going and we will be booking start times for the new year.

So check that out.

and again, yeah, for everyone listening to how that linked in the show notes. So be sure to go check out the website. This is something I will probably be looking into once I figure out what I want to do.

Sharon Pope: We'd love to have you in our onboard, like in the signup form, we have like 20 examples of habits.

You can just like select them. So if you're even just curious, you can start going in and just browsing habits and maybe one of them will ring a bell for you.

William Curb: Make the day goes better. It's just like, cause too often, I think we get caught up in that idea. I need to do something big and it's going to make everything solve all my problems I make tomorrow 5% better. All that's great.

Sharon Pope: And we'd love to help you with it, William.